Re: HTTP router point-of-view concerns

Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> Thu, 11 July 2013 12:18 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD4F21F9FC8 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:18:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.699, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xk-bhiFYg+mx for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5521821F9F58 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:18:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1UxFo3-00032A-ID for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:17:07 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:17:07 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1UxFo3-00032A-ID@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <msweet@apple.com>) id 1UxFnu-00031J-C1 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:16:58 +0000
Received: from bramley.apple.com ([17.151.62.49] helo=mail-out.apple.com) by lisa.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_MD5:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <msweet@apple.com>) id 1UxFnt-0004gK-8X for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 12:16:58 +0000
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_EII10jUmTz76n+tJPJVVVg)"
Received: from relay6.apple.com ([17.128.113.90]) by mail-out.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTP id <0MPR007J0TVAWFS1@mail-out.apple.com> for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: 1180715a-b7f306d000004235-e5-51dea21e3f28
Received: from jimbu (jimbu.apple.com [17.151.62.37]) (using TLS with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 2D.18.16949.E12AED15; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.1.102] (208-96-65-222.eastlink.ca [208.96.65.222]) by jimbu.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-24.01(7.0.4.24.0) 64bit (built Nov 17 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0MPR002H6U3HXW40@jimbu.apple.com> for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 11 Jul 2013 05:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
References: <CA+qvzFPUpcm6kUtJx+rTw8Dpp4Gtx4Bmr3XPDhjNsjchUfN9_w@mail.gmail.com> <51DE1E32.9010801@treenet.co.nz> <CA+qvzFOrZEaaXKRYeaU=_X7vmemmjybGX9xLe3=VtEh6b8Nwgw@mail.gmail.com> <51DE8435.9010103@treenet.co.nz>
In-reply-to: <51DE8435.9010103@treenet.co.nz>
Message-id: <7BD2D277-BDA4-44DF-95D5-16DADA001DF0@apple.com>
Cc: Christian Parpart <trapni@gmail.com>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329)
From: Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:16:29 -0400
To: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiON1OVVdu0b1Agy2/LSwOt8xicmD0ODpv P2sAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxrLzb9gL+oQqVv5ax9LAuJe/i5GTQ0LAROLyrU5WCFtM4sK9 9WxdjFwcQgINTBK3769ngXDWMkmsu7+QCcK5zwjUsoYZpIVXQFzi9dEpjF2MHBycAroS1zvk QcLMAvESFzcfYYew5SU2r3kLVW4jMfHUelaIeLjEpYVLoTbLSGze/hisnk1ATeL3pD6wuLCA vsTEPwfA4iwCqhJrH/awgawSEdCQuHSgcgKjwCwkR8xCsnkWks2zgDqYBXQkJi+EKtGWWLbw NTOErSHR+W0iK7L4Akb2VYwCRak5iZVmeokFBTmpesn5uZsYQWHdUBi1g7FhudUhRgEORiUe 3ob4u4FCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHgFJ98LFOJNSaysSi3Kjy8qzUktPsQozcGiJM7L+xioWiA9 sSQ1OzW1ILUIJsvEwSnVwDjpTUe4TMeNn5fLdI5OFlHXUJncY6b3Yv3lnK7la3g3RSxbOXfP i/WRkwM8xePXpXQsq77OtGnPNN8n9yyuHnIx8pnmGVMdvP2cGdeWjYcemExs9HGZfURpySeL CY7p3vuXLwxdrnKXRXrt0V/6PNeKN0rFJffJfXoYtVDG8PhDzZNRE/KmmKQpsRRnJBpqMRcV JwIAz4h4GGcCAAA=
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.151.62.49; envelope-from=msweet@apple.com; helo=mail-out.apple.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-0.467, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.303, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1UxFnt-0004gK-8X b0258945aa177cd8861e5735c0297c24
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: HTTP router point-of-view concerns
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/7BD2D277-BDA4-44DF-95D5-16DADA001DF0@apple.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/18692
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Amos,

On 2013-07-11, at 6:08 AM, Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz> wrote:
> ...
>> here I don't think that will be much of the case, since HTTP/2 header encoding should still be a way smaller in bytes than HTTP/1.1 and prior.
> 
> Only in compressed form. The Literal form is equivalent to non-compressed HTTP/1.1 syntax. So the bandwidth is being expanded from HTTP/2 size up to HTTP/1 size. Low input causing the relay to generate large output is the very definition of amplification.

Well, a typed encoding would still offer some modest savings, and there are alternate compression schemes that could be used that are not so stateful.

I /do/ like the idea of a start frame (request, response, push promise) before the headers...