IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Iasa20] draft-haberman-iasa20dt-recs-00.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 15 July 2017 20:43 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FDD12EAA5 for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtHL94tu5-IY for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 133D7129B06 for <iasa20@ietf.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id c73so60082459pfk.2 for <iasa20@ietf.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=qT82YUY8duE37UADCDzYrPbFbQgR5GB/6zvoC/t2z4E=; b=D+uCU+ngkXNO6OUF7zI4z3cckOu5sB2iecJ6p7oOSKqy3TytqJDXfebapwKFyIPJFv mwrEZPPFHmyxWoWO9rdu2MBGMKKm/qh/r80HsyDqGrGdyGZ98qtdfUtcHgqyKf59InKV eDA7Zklkc56rSNtrUAwU/nWabV5bZBht9evJ4Y4b3cJNexUWJGpDCJDr6c1734LYj5U/ T158KzrbliYgvQpxd/ffyL63xVKMxcXDzySfqe76FpSJ74BE5UJbYsIBtsw/LfA/QDgW jags9mDSILgl9DSJzX1UA9nDWSYMDQYoPrauHCJ357+1sbOja6iJVs/qRlDGZU5ZylzS xD2Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qT82YUY8duE37UADCDzYrPbFbQgR5GB/6zvoC/t2z4E=; b=k+Juizx2uBNvucHylVbYofKkRGzqUFrtxWxL9R2y6m2l/zk1TebOItkeZHDYxZudX9 7VxIsFJOmxH3tojeT2LC3oujvTu2uAbz6ASxmYL4/Lko/CoEK54xfNpyXAcNWYVuMsOP JBhJrMI7DTO2Jisik+Qx7Sx08mdnBjb9oYdPtfGCBYpkQvQcxPPYbSy+yTYsDkpa7UC0 wep38GJXmnOogulRa/9A1V4XQnL1SDGoZex5rEZ8M7THkrC/bBrv/F8xIUMHA+bImC+w QohOyki12Kw4uWKJ418LAUirAO2zWxAKjrWvJM1PzrD1d8DgNgUnuvC1klq94efaA5Fy hYXg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111AA5ylPDXlgrHvLvG0ys1UmCFtq9vxOXi2qpivwx8HGUWWfday 4tCxnnzA5eB66kbm
X-Received: by 10.84.231.203 with SMTP id g11mr22141365pln.241.1500151395474; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.21] (69.21.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [123.255.21.69]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k26sm15956084pgn.34.2017.07.15.13.43.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:43:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: Matthew Ford <ford@isoc.org>, "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
Cc: "iasa20@ietf.org" <iasa20@ietf.org>
References: <CABtrr-VtbzvTuBxV1y8910m8zPNi53CWVKd9NGpvAfprwc8iEA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMDa1gkyeywF9zNa3Z3w5FDuD=J9p3fW_pPaQtoLsUXM5Q@mail.gmail.com> <CABtrr-X6rENwvScwJJCLO9XrgDDBLtw_v_G3PxQZhdHiB6xuew@mail.gmail.com> <B351229A-72C2-433B-BC19-C35099491EF6@piuha.net> <CA+9kkMBzgOY+K2w1Yhk3B9irGaMo4CRrJ2kT+oAXRUhLwW0ukg@mail.gmail.com> <D146FE44-3263-4379-A4DB-D89E3624C9B8@piuha.net> <08c0c72b-7720-e7a0-f6b6-be53ae3545a2@gmail.com> <F5F93462-FC6B-4942-8969-345D8455550E@cable.comcast.com> <276A914C-1B4D-4B47-A6A6-D377CC6CB381@isoc.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <bab7c0c2-dfb8-0b6f-ecee-0ba3d6ddc1a3@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 08:43:08 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <276A914C-1B4D-4B47-A6A6-D377CC6CB381@isoc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iasa20/GZWul-J9VNQdtbxOUnuN5ztTGjM>
Subject: Re: [Iasa20] draft-haberman-iasa20dt-recs-00.txt
X-BeenThere: iasa20@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions relating to reorganising the IETF administrative structures in the so called “IASA 2.0” project. <iasa20.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iasa20/>
List-Post: <mailto:iasa20@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 20:43:20 -0000

On 15/07/2017 20:32, Matthew Ford wrote:
> 
>> On 15 Jul 2017, at 10:26, Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/14/17, 5:47 AM, "iasa20 on behalf of Brian E Carpenter" <iasa20-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hence my question: what were the conditions and dynamics that led to the IAOC becoming effectively an executive committee rather than the oversight committee intended? If we don't understand that, it will probably happen again.
>>
>> The design team discussed some thoughts as to why this is the case and how to avoid it. This may be best addressed by a question at the microphone during the meeting. 
>>
>> My personal sense, which I am happy to expand upon at the meeting (and will make little sense in 1 sentence), includes issues around job definition & scope, transparency, background/experience & goals of the people/group selecting for the roles, background/experience of the candidates, and more. 
>>
> 
> The history of the IASA experience is certainly interesting and relevant. In addition I think there are also natural human tendencies at work here, so to the extent that any future structure depends upon the clear demarcation of roles between strategy and operations, we probably need to think carefully about mechanisms that could help prevent the natural tendencies diluting original intent or at least support roleholders as they attempt to maintain alignment between practice and theory.

Yes, and we should be honest with ourselves. A lot of us, certainly including me,
are generally impatient to get on and do something when we see that something
needs to be done. In some ways the IETF attracts people with that tendency. 
So many of us are intrinsically bad candidates for an *oversight* committee.

    Brian

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email