Re: [Iasa20] draft-haberman-iasa20dt-recs-00.txt

Thank you so much, Andrew. I think you may actually be agreeing on the IETF
Trust piece: I think Bob and others were worried more about the legal
status of the trust in the later two options, not the composition of the
Trust Board, which I think it's fair to say was a good arrangement -- to
overlap substantially with IAOC -- but that recent developments (IANA
transition -- have exposed how that can be over-stained such that it would
be good to explicitly plan for those sets to be more disjoint. (I think
Jari has been making this point as it was painful (my words) over his Chair
tenure.)

I may be misunderstanding everyone is no one here! Best, Joe

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:04 Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I'm unlikely to be in the IASA 2.0 BoF today.  I've read the draft and
> I have some remarks.
>
> I want to thank the DT for their work and for getting this together so
> quickly.
>
> On Fri, Jul 07, 2017 at 04:29:53PM +0000, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>
> > Feedback on the set of identified possible paths forward or options is
> the key
> > question. Are any potential missed options? Also, feedback on the
> implications
> > of options being considered would be welcome.
>
> I think that the possible options, to a first order of approximation,
> are right, but I fear that the trade-off discussion is a little too
> flat.  In particular, I fear that the analysis does not place enough
> emphasis on the achievability of each potential option, compared to
> the advantages that each might bring.  This is in some sense similar
> to Bob's worry about financial impact: one might like the advantages
> of the most expensive option, but if one doesn't have the money then
> one can't have it.  The same is true of time: if the difference in
> transition time between two options is measured in years, that seems
> like it will be a pretty important factor.  My own sense is that
> anything we predict will take more than 18 months is a non-starter,
> because of the term length of appointees.
>
> This brings me to a second issue: the document is silent on the term
> length of IASA++/board members, but I think that issue has to be faced
> squarely.  We have a serious structural problem in that the oversight
> function ought to be responsible for longer-term considerations, but
> as a practical matter they can't have a horizon of more than 2 or
> maybe 3 years because of appointment lengths: nobody who makes a
> current plan can say with any assurance that they'll be around when a
> plan takes effect.  We already see this problem explicitly in
> controversies over meeting site selection, but I think the problem is
> a deep one.  If we don't tackle this problem as a first-order one,
> we'll miss it in any arrangements that we make.
>
> Finally, and perhaps related to the first issue, I disagree very
> strongly with the claim that we should not try to separate the Trust
> membership from the IAOC-or-successor membership at the same time we
> are making other changes.  On the contrary, I think the linking of the
> Trust is a really serious structural problem that could easily hurt
> our ability to do something about IASA if we do not plan explicitly to
> address it.  The Trust once was responsible only for property that
> affected the IETF directly, but that is no longer true.  We need to
> avoid creating the conditions under which issues that people have with
> the Trust composition constrain our freedom of movement in what we can
> do to our administrative support arrangements.  At the same time, the
> overloading of the IAOC membership with Trust responsibilities means
> that the workload arrangements are quite bad if there is a lot for the
> Trust to do; so fixing that overloading ought to be an important goal
> in this effort.
>
> I think that the DT draft is a good start, and I look forward to
> continued progress.
>
> Best regards,
>
> A
>
> --
> Andrew Sullivan
> ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
>
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-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
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