Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN
Gilles Chehade <gilles@poolp.org> Wed, 09 January 2019 08:20 UTC
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 09:20:34 +0100
From: Gilles Chehade <gilles@poolp.org>
To: Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan <giri@dombox.org>
Cc: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20190109082034.GA75621@ams-1.poolp.org>
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Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN
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On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 01:25:43PM +0530, Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan wrote: > > > > After reading your proposal, I don't quite understand what it is about and > > what is expected from SMTP implementations. > > > I wanted to introduce the keyword "MARKDOWN" in the list of EHLO response. > So the client can understand and transfer the messages directly with > content type "text/markdown" > but what is preventing the client from doing so today ? why does the server need to tell the client that it can send in text/markdown, when the client can already do so and the server doesn't actually care for the content type since it's part of the DATA and not the transport ? > The content type is part of the message, not part of the protocol > > > I'm using the content type in the message right? > yes, which is why I don't understand why it also needs to be part of protocol. put it differently, what do you expect the SMTP implementation to do when this MARKDOWN extension is used that it doesn't do when it isn't used ? > also your rationale seems to equate one SMTP session to one message but a > > single session may transport multiple messages with different messages with > > different content types. > > > Ok what am I missing here? When a server says that "I recognize markdown > format", then the client gonna send markdown messages as it is. I > understand a session can transport multiple messages. But why do you think > it won't work? > well, as someone writing a server implementation: When a server says that "I recognize markdown format" that sentence doesn't make sense to me because the server does not recognize a format or another, it's in charge of the transport, not of rendering or making any sense out of the DATA part. it feels like a violation of layer, DATA spill over transport. Now as to why it wouldn't work, well, assuming the transport protocol actually had to know what's inside DATA, if you use the MARKDOWN extension then how can the same session transport another message that's not a markdown message ? The session is "tainted" as MARKDOWN session when you use that extension... so why would I bother implementing it if DATA already contains the content-type ? How comes MARKDOWN is needed and HTML wasn't given that they are basically the same use-case with a different encoding format ? Not to mention that many implementations establish SMTP sessions based on what is on the envelope (FROM/TO) and not what's in DATA, so sessions would require that implementations look at DATA to determine what it contains before setting up the SMTP session. -- Gilles Chehade @poolpOrg https://www.poolp.org tip me: https://paypal.me/poolpOrg
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN valdis.kletnieks
- [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Gilles Chehade
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Gilles Chehade
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN valdis.kletnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Gilles Chehade
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Peter Bowyer
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Gilles Chehade
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN valdis.kletnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Bucy
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Bucy
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… valdis.kletnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… valdis.kletnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] message/external-body John R Levine
- [ietf-smtp] Reviving PRDR Дилян Палаузов
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Reviving PRDR John Bucy
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Bucy
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] 250-MARKDOWN Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gilles Chehade
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… valdis.kletnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Bucy
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] chunking Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] chunking Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Paul Smith
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Steve Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Gene Hightower
- Re: [ietf-smtp] [Proposal] confusing parts of the… Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Reviving PRDR Phil Pennock
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Reviving PRDR Rolf E. Sonneveld