Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 18 April 2020 21:06 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C4B3A119B for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.45
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1536-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=hvSt+Tq2; dkim=fail (1536-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=K9NB0d8Q
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uehPfZ9ppPgh for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:06:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 270643A1197 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:06:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 58158 invoked by uid 100); 18 Apr 2020 21:06:29 -0000
Date: 18 Apr 2020 21:06:28 -0000
Message-ID: <r7fq4k$1nm5$1@gal.iecc.com>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=e326.5e9b6bd5.k2004; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=6ZWjZzlkQAnF7pISsYJrffpmtwFo8jGnJ31NdA6HbrU=; b=hvSt+Tq2FRe3OSCzS802qNc73frC2sBJX+71FCYHLeYjFNUhVSNplJviegFmWEMAJpE0FpWB182LPYdGy+hmiZjzB0Ia/SF+SY9pMBUvD6BVCyF3Gx3r4xbKRtgGbEbBbA7gnDK6hTrz4/QnrnW2R7w0tPVv+J/SH5kKR5CyxTiwwv+lzEUCDRRPQZkgB6JTVJYjdRGN8WSa0dbUWNaGbV5ye5nQ8WsD+ax4qCH60KJ8h02EB/dVl9b5fiNiScq6
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=e326.5e9b6bd5.k2004; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=6ZWjZzlkQAnF7pISsYJrffpmtwFo8jGnJ31NdA6HbrU=; b=K9NB0d8QmSaz+ASDTtWtYUlgbmb6SXKVTDpbOJ2W/Jua/8Z//TFZu/3yNsw48lx4csBimLuCBQhmegSFooLSGrtR4pL3CTYWRYydsE8ZXdIK9zDhnt6V9QMcfyhCTzFuztd7VH71PbjYZDpQuUMArfnjWNqzKrX3WuwHmgjEauG5YgZv4aIJDFmQ7pCwx65I8xC8+bao8Fdyg/Ma7P9iUkXUq1D0HR9fvqrXo/Eq/Z53IDKJZo0GlQN7QrPmEIjZ
Organization: Taughannock Networks
References: <20200409230011.F039B17637D0@ary.qy> <alpine.OSX.2.22.407.2004091945050.80689@ary.qy> <20200410090430.GA75736@kiel.esmtp.org> <29104A0F-B9ED-4CD7-99B3-5A042375C68B@dukhovni.org>
In-Reply-To: <20200409230011.F039B17637D0@ary.qy> <alpine.OSX.2.22.407.2004091945050.80689@ary.qy> <20200410090430.GA75736@kiel.esmtp.org> <29104A0F-B9ED-4CD7-99B3-5A042375C68B@dukhovni.org>
Cleverness: some
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/VmBAWa0HCNgEsxyyKV-XXGb0hgE>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:06:39 -0000

In article <29104A0F-B9ED-4CD7-99B3-5A042375C68B@dukhovni.org>rg>,
Viktor Dukhovni  <ietf-smtp@ietf.org> wrote:
>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 5:04 AM, Claus Assmann <ietf-smtp@esmtp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 09, 2020, John R Levine wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, RFC 3461.  Agreed, it's basically an SMTP level web bug.  Nobody
>>> implements that.
>> 
>> sendmail implemented it too (more than 20 years ago?). I guess it
>> should read "nobody enables/uses it"?
>
>And likewise Postfix also implements RFC3461.  It is on by default.
>I turn it off on inbound edge systems, and ignore remote "DSN" on
>outbound edge systems.  That way, any DSNs are sent within either my
>or the remote ADMD, but not across ADMD boundaries. ...

I meant that nobody sends positive DSNs.  You're right, we get lots of DSN bounces.

R's,
John


-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly