Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs
Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> Mon, 27 April 2020 22:08 UTC
Return-Path: <mrsam@courier-mta.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24ED03A0C22 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fn-glAfbp6Dj for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailx.courier-mta.com (mailx.courier-mta.com [68.166.206.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E24D3A0C1F for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from monster.email-scan.com (monster.email-scan.com [::ffff:192.168.0.2]) (TLS: TLSv1.3,256bits,TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by www.courier-mta.com with UTF8ESMTPS id 00000000002C0011.000000005EA757F1.00007F8A; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:08:49 -0400
Received: from monster.email-scan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (IDENT: uid 1004) by monster.email-scan.com with UTF8ESMTP id 000000000005E9C1.000000005EA757F0.0000F600; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:08:48 -0400
References: <20200426222237.7E1351864BA8@ary.qy> <cone.1587945373.218961.31890.1004@monster.email-scan.com> <C8DB3151-D5EC-4DC6-BFA6-0B698ADB4D3D@wordtothewise.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1588025328.577835.59133.1004@monster.email-scan.com>
X-Mailer: http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/
From: Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com>
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:08:48 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mimegpg
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_monster.email-scan.com-59133-1588025328-0002"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/aK8oa0PJfT7WxpWd8rVUQ2MnTCQ>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:08:52 -0000
Laura Atkins writes: > Forwarding can happen before the message hits the recipient’s mailbox (sieve, > procmail). Also, recipients may have per-user filters to /dev/null mail, > before the MUA gets it or afterwards - most MUAs allow for blocking. Often, > these are solutions implemented to avoid harassment or abuse and there is a > significant security / escalation risk for the people implementing the blocks > if the blocks are discovered. I only dimly recall, a very, very long time ago, seeing precursors to modern DSNs that included the exact details of what procmail did with a given message. This was long before DSNs were standardized. I have not seen any modern DSN that spills the guts to such a detail. All the ones that I've seen, that follow the current spec (to varying degrees) say nothing more than the mail was delivered (or not) to such and such E- mail address without going into the details as to where exactly the mail wound up, in the actual INBOX, or trash. I do agree that I don't /quite/ see the value-added to the recipient of implementing success DSNs. Or any DSNs, for that matter. If the receiving mail server does not want the email it should reject it instead of accepting it and generate a failure DSN. So, neither success nor failure DSNs really have any value to the receiving party. But I do not see any security issue with DSNs themselves, as specified.
- [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies (was… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Valdis Kl ē tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Valdis Kl ē tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik