Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating

Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Sun, 07 June 2020 22:20 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158C73A0A50 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.319
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2vBQu6lj9POJ for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 15:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 073713A0A4F for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 15:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kOZhGeXWFA8ChEukPfFV0yO3n912LLFoZx4wWxhR86A=; b=inZ0kG5dHwQHlF7nywllFXP6c R0F6WrRbLAsdyBQ1TS8unLJqhjEF/fk1lqiLjuRUlmA7zhmmh8871bfyOXd0mhaHbw47zwzW+eVrq pic7TjOGAWysFIKnjznD7j3RbjEZ1u7dBlXBaIy4vZLRgF7YMzcvUo1LAAofY7isJk8CPMJEEl7y8 oZf5/IhLqShvowWPI7OU9/yC6VhZ4dsXdbenyxwBNx6epKLyn7qrJkstrVU5QgylC1i4++p+Fkmv2 ZG3R44iPm0xg7R+BZKHkrAf8kTqCuq5TajxHdDfcmUgVZO2/7mHSoSIK1fZ2q6HGecQb0YjgewiEs mNEM7HdGA==;
Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:55639 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1ji3el-004IqG-PY; Sun, 07 Jun 2020 18:20:48 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\))
Subject: Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating
From: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <830b91c4-0bb5-af5b-f7b8-c5edd43dc87e@mtcc.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 15:20:43 -0700
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <4512C1BF-5722-479B-8506-24018610BEAD@strayalpha.com>
References: <28A2725D-00F8-4739-8A73-ED176F8EF561@strayalpha.com> <3AA98081-A70E-4076-8096-79FFAEE8A738@huitema.net> <830b91c4-0bb5-af5b-f7b8-c5edd43dc87e@mtcc.com>
To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2)
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/7IhVEKqHBi_MUqWg1KXuRmlzAIs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2020 22:20:52 -0000

TLS isn’t “transport layer”. It’s app-layer.

TCP-AO is transport layer - and would similarly protect against middlebox modifications.

Joe

> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 6/7/20 12:39 PM, Christian Huitema wrote:
>>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Overall, I’d feel a lot better about upending transport checksums if we had evidence that the checksum wasn’t catching errors. If the checksum is correct because it’s being constantly recomputed without being checked, a new alg won’t fix the issue.
>> Or, use a keyed cryptographic checksum and do not give the key to middleboxes.
>> 
> I've always had an unease about transport layer security vs transport IPsec. At least I now have something to hang my hat on.
> 
> Mike
> 
>