Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 09 May 2011 05:33 UTC
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Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 01:32:55 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Bob Braden <braden@isi.edu>, John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793
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--On Sunday, May 08, 2011 15:06 -0700 Bob Braden <braden@isi.edu> wrote: > I just discovered an astonishing example of misinformation, > shall we say, in the IEEE electric power community. There is > an IEEE standards document C37.118, entitled (you don't care) > "IEEE Standard for Synchrophasors for Power Systems > C37-118(TM)-2005", which is currently of great importance for > the instrumentation of the national power grid. I just noticed > that it references RFC 793, and for curiosity looked to see > how it was referenced. I found: > > [B8] RFC 793-1981,Transmission Control Protocol DARPA > Internet Program Protocol Specification.[12] >... > Now, it has always been IETF's (and even before there was an > IETF, Jon Postel's) policy to allow people to sell RFCs. What > astonishes me is that clever people in the IEEE don't know > RFCs are available free online. I guess RFCs remain so > counter-cultural that industrial types don't get it. I wonder > how many other IEEE standards contain similar RFC-for-pay > references.. Bob, What you presumably remember, but others reading this may not, was just how many comments Jon made about the impossibility of preventing fools from throwing their money away. And, of course, it is in the interest of Global Engineering Documents --which, in the era in which few folks had direct access to the Internet was one of the better sources for miscellaneous technical standards documents-- to let people continue to believe that they are a convenient and standard (sic) source. --On Sunday, May 08, 2011 21:26 -0400 "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote: >... > This isn't an enormous project, but it requires figuring out > which online libraries are worth getting into, making the > necessary arrangements with them (which may or may not involve > money), a batch process to load in all the existing RFCs, and > arrange with the production house to ensure that each new RFC > gets listed as it's published. Most of these systems include > abstracts and forward and backward references, which will > doubtless require some debugging to make them work reliably. > > Like I said, it's a good project for the new RFC series > editor. It should be a lot easier than deciding how to put > Chinese names into RFCs. +1 I do note, however, that RFCs appear to be listed in ACM's Guide to Computing Literature (essentially part of the ACM Digital Library at this stage). Putting "Transmission Control Protocol" into the search mechanism turns up RFC 793 in a hurry. And, behold, they have full text available and retrieving it works without any charges other than the access fees for the Digital Library itself. "RFC Editor" is even on their list of publishers for search purposes. The problem is that the titles they index do not contain the RFC numbers, so looking up "RFC793" or "RFC 793". That is not a decision to avoid indexing the series (which would require the process John outlines to reverse) but a bug. I have filed a bug report as Digital Library feedback. john
- How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Braden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 todd glassey
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 todd glassey
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yoav Nir
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John R. Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Mark Nottingham
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Ole Jacobsen
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Michel Py
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Stefan Winter
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Braden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Doug Barton
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steve Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Dave Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Ross Callon
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Pekka Savola
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Julian Reschke
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 J.D. Falk
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… John Levine
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Klaas Wierenga
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Thomas Dreibholz
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yoav Nir
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yaakov Stein
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yaakov Stein
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John R. Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Florian Weimer
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 SM
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Hinden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Florian Weimer
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Hinden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steve Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Julian Reschke
- The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Julian Reschke
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Simon Perreault
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Marc Manthey
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Doug Barton
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Julian Reschke
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Simon Perreault