Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Kesteren on 2012-09-24 (public-whatwg-archive@w3.org from September 2012)
Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> Mon, 22 October 2012 21:47 UTC
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:46:56 +0000
From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>
Subject: Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Kesteren on 2012-09-24 (public-whatwg-archive@w3.org from September 2012)
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Cc: Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>, mnot@mnot.net, URI <uri@w3.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > > I couldn't agree more! We've been waiting for four years for the URI > > working group to get their act together and fix the URL mess. Nothing > > has happened. We lost patience and are now doing it ourselves. ... > > Clarifying: there is no URI Working Group, and as far as I can tell, Whoever. The people complaining that it should be done at the IETF haven't done any work. That's the complaint. Until they do the work, complaining that we're doing it instead is going to fall on deaf ears and be met with the rolling of eyeballs. > there is no consensus that there is a "mess" to fix related to URIs. The specs don't define everything that implementations have to do to be interoperable. If the IETF doesn't think that's a problem, then that's fine, but then y'all shouldn't be surprised when people who _do_ think that's a problem try and fix it. On Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Roy T. Fielding wrote: > > What you are insisting on defining as a "URL" is the input to the > process of making a hypertext reference (the arbitrary string typed into > a dialog or placed inside an href/src attribute) Or placed on a command line to wget(1), or put in an RDFa triple store, or in transmitted in an HTTP Location: header, or... > whereas the IETF standards define the output of that process as a > uniform addressing syntax for use on the Internet by every application > that makes use of Web addresses. That's what Anne is specifying, because, despite your claims, STD 66 doesn't actually define that. It only defines processing for valid strings, not invalid ones. > Browsers implement both the input processing and the output URI > standards. HTML must define the input processing, either within the > spec or by reference to a new spec. This has nothing particularly to do with HTML, HTML is just one of many many contexts in which URLs are found. > "" is not a URL. Whether it's a valid URL or not is besides the point (it's like people claiming that invalid XML files aren't XML, a pointless argument). We still have to define the processing for such a string when software is to process it as a URL. > > I'm sure Anne would love nothing more than to be able to work on > > something more interesting that this. But at the end of the day, > > someone has to do it, and y'all aren't doing it. > > > > This should not come as a surprise to anyone, the IETF and W3C have > > been discussing this matter at last as far back as 2008. > > Yes, we have been discussing it since 1994. 19 years of not fixing the problem, then. Shouldn't come as a surprise that someone has finally gotten around to doing it. > It would be nice if you would take the advice already received and > define references in HTML, including the algorithms for converting them > into URI references (for DOM and network usage) and IRI references (for > display). As far as HTML goes, my plan is to remove all references to STD 66 and rely entirely on Anne's work, so that there doesn't have to be any preprocessing nonsense. Then the STD 66 RFCs are entirely irrelevant. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… SM
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John C Klensin
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Noah Mendelsohn
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Noah Mendelsohn
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… James M Snell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… mike amundsen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Graham Klyne
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John Cowan
- websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL Sta… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jari Arkko
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… James M Snell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Christophe Lauret
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Manger, James H
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John Cowan
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Manger, James H
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Anne van Kesteren
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John C Klensin
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Melinda Shore
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Morris
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Anne van Kesteren
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roberto Peon