Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Kesteren on 2012-09-24 (public-whatwg-archive@w3.org from September 2012)
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Wed, 24 October 2012 12:18 UTC
Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E6021F887E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -103.266
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XVaP221LRexV for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:18:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from scss.tcd.ie (hermes.scss.tcd.ie [IPv6:2001:770:10:200:889f:cdff:fe8d:ccd2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE8A21F886D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:18:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hermes.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EAC171479; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:18:44 +0100 (IST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:user-agent:from:date:message-id:received :received:x-virus-scanned; s=cs; t=1351081123; bh=4Y4k79dyuTu8Y9 Bx1h33NlisDnPR9Tdtuj73vG/Jfu0=; b=lSaEAtVH+1uyCRLVxmwESoACveGf1C l2sICGRIpeLPnt4VfvX2fEcgmcZb6fXH6r+IKn1Tq4XrPjwGsZF8rQNwnNkOrLyV z/m39OQljBMZjj4PG3OlzMpuHmjEzc9gpSH2ZaoY9CLipOCsuP8Fkkq6d6KNvUDb bssy0AJqqxfo8Z7q5xXR5q5nwW5GAxKeeCUzCD4lykMqcf2Zn4plN2CtRHANDTqx EoyNakPuS88Q0YEbL7Zf1t9Bjc4wO+Fcj8ylDknaiISZHm10RMQ71AEA3tdMAOha HOoLD6TCnwLLn8wQ9vbg8BXFA6KM1d2XCgIin93iaFNIa/xGA9XEv4rg==
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie
Received: from scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10027) with ESMTP id UzoZLql+CEU4; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:18:43 +0100 (IST)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:93a:7c18:9b35:51a7] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:93a:7c18:9b35:51a7]) by smtp.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B04C171478; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:18:41 +0100 (IST)
Message-ID: <5087DCA1.505@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:18:41 +0100
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121017 Thunderbird/16.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Subject: Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Kesteren on 2012-09-24 (public-whatwg-archive@w3.org from September 2012)
References: <50604C1A.7090901@gmx.de> <5060A964.5060001@stpeter.im> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1210172354500.2478@ps20323.dreamhostps.com> <507F5A7E.6040206@arcanedomain.com> <50856E3C.103@gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1210221753010.2471@ps20323.dreamhostps.com> <0DBC8A11-319C-4120-975E-7E40FD5818BF@gbiv.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1210222137530.2471@ps20323.dreamhostps.com> <CA+9kkMDpEZCvcG1DJd=O1qPNV+=+GTBeN+CGndUe51Xym_A9sg@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1210232115210.2471@ps20323.dreamhostps.com> <CA+9kkMBg=hxz=yRYfYA5Hkwp-4ODFBnpK_qctCMB_oEHLPP49g@mail.gmail.com> <5087C4B2.1060109@piuha.net>
In-Reply-To: <5087C4B2.1060109@piuha.net>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, URI <uri@w3.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:18:48 -0000
On 10/24/2012 11:36 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > Ted, Ian, > >> Un-marked context shifts are >> likely, and likely to be bad. Avoiding them by picking a new term is >> both easy and appropriate. > > FWIW, I agree with Ted's advice above. Further to that, some guy's fine tool [1] says that RFC 3986 is referenced by 193 other RFCs. Google scholar says that RFC 3986 has 2090 citations. [2] While that's nowhere near the full story, it is nonetheless significant. Buggering about with a spec like that whilst only considering a limited context seems hugely dumb to me, no matter how good a case you seem to have for changing bits and pieces of it. So far, I've not seen the argument for changing 3986, but there do seem to be good arguments for additional things such as error-handling specific to the browser context. I honestly don't get the argument for forking, and I agree with Ted that that's what's at issue and would be stupid. I don't know that inventing a new term is that good an approach either really, it'd seem better to me to try specify the additional stuff needed in the whatwg context and then see if there's any change to 3986 needed and if so, then propose those changes as an update to the RFC, following the IETF process. That is not what I see happening now and I do see an apparent intent to create the stupid fork that Ted identified. Getting an update to 3986 through the IETF process will I'm sure be a huge PITA for whoever does propose it, since there are so many other dependent specs. But that's life, and its quite do-able, if done by someone who's able to handle that kind of work. S. [1] http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/citations-rfc3986.html [2] http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6121683772362091274&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en > >> >> My personal opinion, as always, >> > > Mine too. > > Jari > > >
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… SM
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John C Klensin
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Noah Mendelsohn
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Tim Bray
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Noah Mendelsohn
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… James M Snell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… mike amundsen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Graham Klyne
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John Cowan
- websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL Sta… Julian Reschke
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ted Hardie
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jari Arkko
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… James M Snell
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Christophe Lauret
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Manger, James H
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John Cowan
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- RE: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Manger, James H
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Anne van Kesteren
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Jan Algermissen
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… John C Klensin
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Melinda Shore
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Ian Hickson
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Morris
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… David Sheets
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Anne van Kesteren
- Re: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Keste… Roberto Peon