Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. of gateway)
Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 30 March 2010 12:50 UTC
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:51:14 +0300
From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Raj Singh <rsjenwar@gmail.com>
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Cc: ipsec <ipsec@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. of gateway)
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Hi Raj, No, RFC 5685 tried for generality without defining the usage scenario in advance, and this attempt failed. The solution cannot be used gateway-gateway, because it depends on the (arbitrary) initiator/responder distinction. Thanks, Yaron On 30.3.2010 15:43, Raj Singh wrote: > Hi Yaron, > > You are saying the same things what i am saying, then i am not able to > understand how its counter example? > The point i want to make here, > "We can emphasize the main use case scenario the draft, but protocol > should have a space for generality". > According to me RFC - 5685 is good example of the above. > > Best regards, > Raj > > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com > <mailto:yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi Raj, > > this in fact is the perfect counter-example: RFC 5685 started out > with the client-gateway scenario, and when we woke up to see how it > can be generalized to the symmetric gateway-gateway case, it was too > late. Hence Sec. 10, which says that the resulting protocol is a > very partial solution for this case. > > 10. Use of the Redirect Mechanism between IKEv2 Peers > > The redirect mechanism described in this document is mainly intended > for use in client-gateway scenarios. However, the mechanism can also > be used between any two IKEv2 peers. But this protocol is > asymmetric, meaning that only the original responder can redirect the > original initiator to another server. > > I'm not saying that we were right in ignoring this case. I'm saying > that you can only get the protocol that you want if you define the > requirements clearly up front. > > Thanks, > Yaron > > > On 29.3.2010 16:58, Raj Singh wrote: > > Hi Team, > > The similar scenarios are beautifully handled by Redirect RFC-5685. > The Redirect RFC emphasize on client-gateway terminology, which is > typical use of Redirect mechanism in IKEv2 where Gateway redirects > client to another less loaded gateway but at the same time RFC > is also > applicable to router-router scenario when one router decides to > off-load > all existing IKEv2 sessions to another gateway when it goes down for > maintenance etc. > I totally agree with Paul. > > Best regards, > Raj > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Paul Hoffman > <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org <mailto:paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> > <mailto:paul.hoffman@vpnc.org <mailto:paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>>> > wrote: > > <wg-co-chair-hat on> > > The disagreement between Dan and Yaron is over wording in the > not-at-all normative criteria draft. This draft is not > intended to > become an RFC, and is not binding on the WG. It currently is > being > edited by Yaron; soon it will be edited by both Yaron and Dan. > > From the active thread the past few days, it seems that Dan > disagrees with Yaron's view that people thinking about the PAKE > primarily as a gateway-to-gateway solution. That's fine: > others in > the WG might take one view or the other. I ask that Dan and > Yaron > produce an -03 with both views in it. I note that the current WG > charter does not insist that the PAKE we choose be for > gateway-to-gateway, but that it does list "authentication > between > two servers or routers" as a motivating scenario, and does > not list > remote access as a motivating scenario for the proposed new > work. > > As WG members consider which criteria are important to them, > they > should also consider what scenarios we want to emphasize in the > eventual document. I use the word "emphasize" here because > we cannot > prevent implementers and administrators from using the new > authentication mechanism however they want; we have plenty of > experience with IKE and IPsec documents saying "you should > use this > in that way" that are merrily ignored by large parts of the > market. > > --Paul Hoffman, Director > --VPN Consortium > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org> <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org > <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IPsec mailing list > IPsec@ietf.org <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec > >
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Kaz Kobara
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Kaz Kobara
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Kaz Kobara
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Dan Harkins
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Kaz Kobara
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Kaz Kobara
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Tero Kivinen
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Raj Singh
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Raj Singh
- Re: [IPsec] New PAKE Criteria draft posted (def. … Yaron Sheffer