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Re: [IPv6] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 16 February 2024 03:43 UTC

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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:43:44 +1300
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To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>, 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPv6] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.txt
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On 16-Feb-24 10:56, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
> With my IESG hat on and without any relationship to this specific case.
> 
> This will probably be challenging for an informational I-D to obsolete a proposed standard I-D.
> 
> At the worst case, have 2 documents: one obsoleting the old proposed standard then an informational one. Ugly tough...
> 
> But, Brian, I am sure you know the processes even better than I ;-)

I'm fairly sure there is no documented rule for this, but a little Python script told me that the only precedent is RFC1574 and RFC1575, which *both* obsoleted the same Proposed Standard.

However, I think we can figure out a way round this if we want.

     Brian


> -éric
> 
> On 15/02/2024, 20:42, "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Éric,
> 
> 
> Thanks. With your AD hat partially on, do you think that an Informational document can request the IESG to obsolete a Proposed Standard?
> 
> 
> If so, I'd personally be happy to make this draft informational and change the RFC2119 keywords to plain English. That would clarify that it is, as David Schinazi says, aspirational.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Brian
> 
> 
> On 15-Feb-24 22:15, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
>> [Top posting and without any special hat]
>>
>> Brian and Bob, this is a good idea to move forward and keep this valuable feature of IPv6: LLA
>>
>> Like David S, I do not think that this is the IETF remit to specify UI though, i.e., an informational document seems more adequate to me (again as individual).
>>
>> BTW, I often enter URLs without a keyboard with 1- or 2-dimension QR code. Should this be part of the I-D as well ? (more complex than having 2 boxes to enter data) as QR codes are often printed on stickers on IoT devices
>>
>> Just my 0,01 EUR
>>
>> -éric
>>
>>
>> On 12/02/2024, 23:15, "ipv6 on behalf of Brian E Carpenter" <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Were there any other comments on this draft? Are there people who disagree with this new approach? If not, is it appropriate to consider WG adoption already?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Brian Carpenter
>>
>>
>> On 26-Jan-24 14:01, Gyan Mishra wrote:
>>>
>>> I read the draft and it looks good and makes sense.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.verizon.com/> <http://www.verizon.com/&gt;> <http://www.verizon.com/&gt;> <http://www.verizon.com/&amp;gt;&gt;>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> /Network Solutions A//rchitect /
>>>
>>> /Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>> <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>>>//
>>> /
>>>
>>> /M 301 502-1347
>>>
>>> /
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:58 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> As the WG may have noticed, draft-ietf-6man-rfc6874bis has been stuck in the IESG since March 2023, despite multiple revisions and discussions with the ADs and other objectors, particularly those in the W3C and browser (WHATWG**) communities.
>>>
>>> We (Brian and Bob) have reluctantly concluded that the disconnects on this topic between the IETF, the W3C and WHATWG are such that an acceptable compromise cannot be reached.
>>>
>>> We therefore propose to transform the discussion by withdrawing rfc6874bis and RFC6874, and replacing them by a generic requirement that when a user interface supports the input of IPv6 addresses, it MUST support the input of link-local addresses with interface IDs (a.k.a. zone IDs). How any particular software tool does this is a choice for its implementer.
>>>
>>> A first draft has just been submitted, please comment. It intentionally makes no reference whatever to browser or other web issues.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Brian Carpenter
>>> Bob Hinden
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.txt
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 11:51:18 -0800
>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>>
>>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>>
>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>> <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>>>
>>>
>>> Internet-Draft draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.txt is now available.
>>>
>>> Title: Entering IPv6 Zone Identifiers in User Interfaces
>>> Authors: Brian Carpenter
>>> Robert M. Hinden
>>> Name: draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.txt
>>> Pages: 7
>>> Dates: 2024-01-15
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>
>>> This document describes how the zone identifier of an IPv6 scoped
>>> address, defined in the IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture (RFC 4007),
>>> should be entered into a user interface. It obsoletes RFC 6874.
>>>
>>> Discussion Venue
>>>
>>> This note is to be removed before publishing as an RFC.
>>>
>>> Discussion of this document takes place on the 6MAN mailing list
>>> (ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>>), which is archived at
>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/ <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&amp;gt;&gt;>
>>> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/ <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&gt;> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/&amp;gt;&gt;>).
>>>
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/&gt;> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/&gt;> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/&gt;> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/&amp;gt;&gt;>
>>>
>>> There is also an HTML version available at:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html&gt;> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html&gt;> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html&gt;> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui-00.html&amp;gt;&gt;>
>>>
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
>>> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org> <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org>> <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org> <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org>>>
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>>>
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