Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 10 April 2024 20:03 UTC
Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE140C14EB19 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9bKzuHUhoDl9 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06338C14EB17 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6eaf1005fcaso4881688b3a.3 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1712779432; x=1713384232; darn=ietf.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4NN+Y6vr/rxlCZ0lfOV3ZC2GGqj2ChiUw9/Tk9ln6Fw=; b=T13VtK56jPt9HETL5MSoeeBOnICfF2NSAKgJV9oq4gf3yumAb3sLseW4N59B7oDemU EXsaig+703LrBSyj8vUBfs9hmJppRPCuruWEGODnWVeDuzZQ4LyP7inbxK3fjJi5EaiL pp8IbgeqXdRmHNMCtlK+n+j1UwbbE+jZy6mBbKDfTbB7sqjaGfSOlZJ49lM2DIn9jvlh kPXM5C/stacvYQ0Zw5GkP7GUWSt5u4VV5RGHvFpY8xemQUJ60lFI9jXpguqc3JzkKlXT mGAN0miShF12RwUEycf7MtLh4hLKSvdgeRHOf3GQnlKPd1J4wN7Z9No4csLqYtXaFmM4 DWLw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1712779432; x=1713384232; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4NN+Y6vr/rxlCZ0lfOV3ZC2GGqj2ChiUw9/Tk9ln6Fw=; b=A3oCOk43wACUgLPFOzEMabjccC41EuZPieSAJq+AkK5P9R+NxSJC49w11V51zuqLBq FSZjMBwWS4ZrMDt3ETn42j1HcbDdsMpbvxDXxN/xi0TbRmpbzz5WkO82KqoFzndRD65a Hlomu9CBoxyHNRnCpU1/uSHz2eBmpN05fGvkXJIcNwiJc5hW1IbRylpV48naN0qQP9fh b0mFEJnIX9O9a7mTUFhurxEoEcdGltsAClZM7+y00drhwTM2n5yoLImZU5dgLXTn17nG 4oFWd5BSkhzAXIygT7l4zDsYJBe6Nf22Z9PIoFqw9XvgfpveDI9EPHvWWb9fXZFopCIW xMiA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwDddHkJi06psEQBLIXb0EPDPGr04N5SLelfDOOr53CXFa0b8P0 WD6+U88Qtaru+J4awnCqTRTFwNO8d64b41YbtvKOgbj0V91xlz56kXVUsL4D
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEOJPHmDCPuhKHqfkTVRdJwsnHf37jBsOXfo5cA2tnP2l0vGhwCIN0EOjpyGttQR5HvsJaTVg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:2785:b0:1a7:760f:feec with SMTP id rn5-20020a056a21278500b001a7760ffeecmr3214605pzb.20.1712779432078; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2404:4400:541d:a600:44b7:2c2e:2bc6:8707? ([2404:4400:541d:a600:44b7:2c2e:2bc6:8707]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e29-20020a631e1d000000b005dc26144d96sm10271875pge.75.2024.04.10.13.03.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <78b58b14-fa17-4637-9a78-e4cebff7e117@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 08:03:48 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
References: <6A5E5F35-B35F-4358-8EE1-3BD82329141E@jisc.ac.uk> <6FBC1B5A-BF28-4B05-B2B2-A60DA4707755@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nUX3VFcRtFUoCy+Uxn6UQYsB-wo+64PSufBWxW67Y64bw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJU8_nUX3VFcRtFUoCy+Uxn6UQYsB-wo+64PSufBWxW67Y64bw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/SZYRIQE-C00fFn1va4R5TFb5dag>
Subject: Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 20:03:56 -0000
On 11-Apr-24 04:10, Kyle Rose wrote: > I am still in favor of advancing this document to publication. Preferably ASAP. > > I am not in favor of hardening the language for inserting known-local prefixes into the policy table to "MUST". The need for this is not universal: > > * At my sites I am fine with preferring GUA->GUA over ULA->ULA, in large part because I don't have any names that map to both types of address. But that isn't universally true. I think we want a default that covers the most probable case, and of course flexibility for other cases. So All implementations MUST support inserting known-local prefixes. This feature MUST be configurable on or off. This feature SHOULD be configured on by default. The last point is IMHO the normal case; why would you configure ULAs if you don't want to use them? But certainly there is room for disagreement on that point, as Kyle indicates. > > * I regard seeing or attempting to use unreachable ULA (e.g., discovered in global DNS or found in other configuration) as a configuration error that should be resolved by fixing the source of the unreachable addresses. Yes, but that says nothing about whether GUA->GUA or ULA->ULA is preferred. > > I would actually be in favor of*softening*the normative language to"MAY",or to add an opt-in mechanism via "SHOULD, if configured to do so, enable ..."as the need for policy table updates is entirely a function of how a particular network is administered. I have no need for that functionality, and would rather not deal with the complexity it might introduce when all I really want out of this entire effort is preferring ULA->ULA over IPv4->IPv4. A standard means for changing this configuration setting (e.g., via RA) could then be specified later. No, we shouldn't leave anything we know about today for "later". Tomorrow never comes. Brian > > Kyle > > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:29 AM Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com <mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Given the number of changes since the first w.g. last call, the chairs, in consultation with the authors, are staring a second 6MAN working group last call for this document. > > This email starts a second two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing "Preference for IPv6 ULAs over IPv4 addresses in RFC6724" document > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update/> > > as a Standards Track document. > > A summary of changes since the -06 version is below. A good diff to review is: > > https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&difftype=--html <https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&difftype=--html> > > [New draft on left due to line length problem with old draft] > > Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this document should be directed to the ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> mailing list. Editorial suggestions can be sent to the authors. This last call will end on 24 April 2024 23:59 UTC. > > Also, one issue the authors would like feedback on is if the requirement is a SHOULD or MUST for inserting known-local ULA prefixes into their policy table with a precedence above both GUAs and IPv4, while leaving all other general ULAs at a lower precedence. It is a SHOULD in the -08 draft, but there has been support for a MUST in the discussion. > > Bob, Jen, Ole > 6MAN chairs > > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=40jisc.ac.uk@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40jisc.ac.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>> >> *Subject: **Re: [IPv6] I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08.txt* >> *Date: *April 9, 2024 at 7:47:57 AM PDT >> *To: *IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>> >> >> Hi, >> >> Actually it works better I notice with 08 on the left and 06 on the right, as -06 has the broken formatting, so please check the diff from -06 to the current -08 using: >> >> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&difftype=--html <https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&difftype=--html> >> >> The changes are largely around making the MAY insert local entries into a SHOULD insert known-locals, with a little more text on how we’d determine those. >> >> Tim >> >>> On 9 Apr 2024, at 15:13, Nick Buraglio <buraglio@forwardingplane.net <mailto:buraglio@forwardingplane.net>> wrote: >>> >>> We have published -08 of the rfc6724 update, this fixes some >>> formatting and other typographical oversights >>> The following sections address comments from the lis (difft from -06 >>> to -08 is the most useful comparison): >>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&difftype=--html <https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-06&url2=draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update-08&difftype=--html> >>> >>> >>> Brief overview of the changes from -06: >>> >>> Section 2: >>> Add terminology section and define known-local >>> >>> Section 3: >>> Add section on elevating >>> upgrades the requirement in RFC 6724 for nodes to insert a higher >>> precedence entry in the policy table for observed ULA prefixes that >>> are known to be local, referred to in this document as "known-local" >>> ULAs, from a MAYto a SHOULD. >>> >>> Section 4: >>> Changes the 6to4 prefix deprecation to match Teredo, adds further >>> clarity and reference to RFC6724 section 10.7 >>> >>> Section 5: >>> Add text to upgrade the requirement to automatically insert >>> known-local ULAs into a node's policy table from a MAY to a SHOULD. >>> >>> Section 5.3 >>> Further define insertion and removal parameters and requirements for >>> known-local ULA prefixes into table and associated values and label >>> >>> Section 7.2: >>> Further clarify GUA-GUA preferred over ULA-ULA details >>> >>> Section 7.3: >>> Further clarify ULA-ULA preferred over IPv4-IPv4 details >>> >>> Section 8: >>> Housekeeping and formatting changes >>> >>> Section 9.2: >>> Describe the new known-local interaction and how it addresses issues >>> with ULAs in global DNS >>> >>> >>> >>> Further copy edit and housekeeping. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
- [IPv6] I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update… internet-drafts
- Re: [IPv6] I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-up… Nick Buraglio
- Re: [IPv6] I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-up… Tim Chown
- [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-… Bob Hinden
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Bob Hinden
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ole Troan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ole Troan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jeremy Duncan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jeremy Duncan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jeremy Duncan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Michael Richardson
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jared Mauch
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jeremy Duncan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jeremy Duncan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ole Trøan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ole Trøan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jared Mauch
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ole Troan
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… David Farmer
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Tim Chown
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Mark Smith
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Jared Mauch
- Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <dr… Kyle Rose