IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>

Jeremy Duncan <jduncan@tachyondynamics.com> Thu, 11 April 2024 11:43 UTC

Return-Path: <jduncan@tachyondynamics.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E99C14F5EF for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 04:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=tachyondynamics.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kgLbOgwwM3GL for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 04:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12on2115.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.243.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE27C14F680 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 04:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=E5WxNr2dl7zrGK+pOzbWWswT8uTCp3Aq9K9IC9tdjuCM4chzoi3xIqqw3zjebDToDfLOboNcHhzhPLDVnZoc9R6630KAnXJhQNMRSYkMN/G6osdGJVAIgNs3Yhkyx5yQxzMARV016MCF8up4V+sntUdgsRKM4k0iRycO0GBrOrk3JRK72XRhgE/loIfGpJZGO7i6HZAIktmreDprFTX5xzUC8U9qHhFXUpFVFkGjW1iYSoWPfp6WLqojaiwkKalw1sPld4QwKujSnOB+bPreC3vZ/KTX69aIIiOHUkGRIisIrP/PdtIgJPzah5Np+LOFCVKWG4zZdrM1BSgGx1Fr5A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=GxG8j5+v5r5MHct+eQUL45xAqA9eViyCj1wwaVEpoSc=; b=GM+TFDY8j3MNWF3+FLuHpnV400daKinQnn7V7+Gb6NYLW22fXYrlzlxPPMzOwp7o6bTja9yzMSvN9fzrbVeID8qI4XuyNHHncc3FFHIRh20WCTQex0P7V9QH9pPXlFyQl1HhII1TivB4UoyrCGaFlW4a7UulStoTGkwdmi5W8qDjP7jOFxALSn33R/ueNe7Yke1/D0Jk9Jii3trqJQXXkqqMTt0gTbgRfhcAoQl4R83/7W9z+lwYqT9sjCq+GcG3X1vMmRrkcfinbMZZPH6tg/24tE5hM0Xs5YKrk4jZJTP08E/bUKe21IsjD/+yvCtMTDCkZASFTiHDRhxg0yt+7A==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=tachyondynamics.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=tachyondynamics.com; dkim=pass header.d=tachyondynamics.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tachyondynamics.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=GxG8j5+v5r5MHct+eQUL45xAqA9eViyCj1wwaVEpoSc=; b=grc5I+0HNM4hxQZhBNUY6zqU6OSlzP3Wl0hb1Qh/dqygYvJVE/s47yx1LzIJ5CF46AevB8Ekch/TwXia6JdycBgKYcacFl4XdYhLb0idoHDHC+WJuXRYQaldT1A3sajEnqnnYE0le3GLIfvnru0/wfKkxh2jaEFqQYbwOESOvYc=
Received: from BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:308::11) by SA3PR18MB5318.namprd18.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:2fe::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.55; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:43:09 +0000
Received: from BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e505:819f:5270:7bf6]) by BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e505:819f:5270:7bf6%6]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.053; Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:43:09 +0000
From: Jeremy Duncan <jduncan@tachyondynamics.com>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
CC: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>
Thread-Index: AQHai1vhfz6qMvC2LU2nL9L3s4cZ9rFhqjOAgADAMICAAIhu8A==
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:43:09 +0000
Message-ID: <BL1PR18MB4277780C3BB6860653847E00AC052@BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6A5E5F35-B35F-4358-8EE1-3BD82329141E@jisc.ac.uk> <6FBC1B5A-BF28-4B05-B2B2-A60DA4707755@gmail.com> <CAPt1N1m-Ye8vfOVnsPesFshLMV5QuVoxWqM=HVZiJ37zaBg6AA@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1NTvFj0zB0=+nnUKck7TBtwHFz2XoFkD1smx4yCuZohQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr1NTvFj0zB0=+nnUKck7TBtwHFz2XoFkD1smx4yCuZohQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=tachyondynamics.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL1PR18MB4277:EE_|SA3PR18MB5318:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fa6b0f07-8c53-4897-1286-08dc5a1c8fc6
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(366007)(376005)(1800799015)(38070700009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BL1PR18MB4277780C3BB6860653847E00AC052BL1PR18MB4277namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: tachyondynamics.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL1PR18MB4277.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fa6b0f07-8c53-4897-1286-08dc5a1c8fc6
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Apr 2024 11:43:09.7298 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 306ea27d-bb9d-47c1-a6ca-c70495fc7695
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /86OO1E9NEYdIFs14KuDrwZP2Lfxz09ocELbI/V/NMJp0abw8gYDx3+JMwOzXs1fukxk5RbSxXbA/qIyH2Ocaq0hRZ4a16yBz7tK+GSLBZQ=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA3PR18MB5318
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/aCbCNMyVJ_ZcwdYYcMtYp6zAamY>
Subject: Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:43:17 -0000

Lorenzo-

This is misleading at best and incorrect at worst:

“Preferring non-local ULA over IPv4 is incorrect because IPv4 implies global reachability, and ULA does not offer global reachability”

IPv4 with RFC 1918 is not globally reachable as is ULA. When networks are comprised with private and non-routable subnets they may include both IPv6 ULA and IPv4 1918 addresses for the explicit purpose to not be routable on the internet.

-Jeremy


From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Lorenzo Colitti
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 11:30 PM
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [IPv6] Second Working Group Last Call for <draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update>

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 1:04 AM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com<mailto:mellon@fugue.com>> wrote:
I continue to think that section 3,  "Operational Issues Regarding Preference for IPv4 addresses over ULAs," should make the new proposed ULA behavior mandatory rather than optional. I don't see a downside to making it mandatory. Hosts will come into compliance when they can; older implementations will not implement this new behavior, but I don't see any point in perpetuating that.

Absolutely agree. This document should not proceed without that MUST. Preferring non-local ULA over IPv4 is incorrect because IPv4 implies global reachability, and ULA does not offer global reachability. So publishing this document without the MUST is harmful: an implementation that does not implement the SHOULD will cause regressions and break use cases that work today.

Also, MUST allows us to make ULA more useful than it is today. It is *desirable* to be able to publish non-local ULAs and have hosts know what is local and what is not. As a simple example: once all hosts implement the MUST, it will be safe to publish local ULAs in the global DNS, because hosts won't try to use them unless they are local.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email