Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Tue, 31 July 2012 02:22 UTC
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References: <CE39F5249064D946AA3535E63A014619656FB98703@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> <CC3C59B2.2275E%nitinb@juniper.net> <728F9B956B2C48439CA9294B1723B14623754A18@dfweml509-mbs.china.huawei.com> <EE2E7697-92F1-4E98-A3FE-47CDF28C81C7@juniper.net> <F0ABFF98-0B62-4203-B3BA-EF704AE0FBA7@raszuk.net> <CAG4d1rd-g5m6aUb6GQjvu++y6QjHrF1dgsdV7oePMSZaaaomeQ@mail.gmail.com> <CDE9865E-E8DE-4754-A0C2-8875ECCAF865@raszuk.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:22:52 -0400
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, Nitin Bahadur <nitinb@juniper.net>, Susan Hares <susan.hares@huawei.com>, James Kempf <james.kempf@ericsson.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
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Rob, I have also been following Openflow - granted primarily on the hybrid and futures areas. Yes, Openflow allows specification of flow-based forwarding - which can apply to /32 IPv4 routes. This list is NOT to discuss OpenFlow nor to focus on what it does or can be contorted to do. Are overlaps of interest? Yes - but you are not usefully describing that. On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: > Alia, > > >> Hi Rob, >> >> On the lower layer, Openflow talks to control/specify the forwarding >> plane - heading towards forwarding plane modeling; something that >> ForCES did a while ago. It focuses on Layer-2 and does not interact >> with the routing control plane - generally assuming that the routing >> control protocol does not/should not exist. > > > Completely incorrect assumption sorry. OF does not assume L2 as an example I have been working on routing applications over OF based data plane for over a year now. [Alia] OF requires LLDP to learn the topology! Yes, there is flow-based policy-based forwarding - for host-routes. > OF separates control plane including ability to run routing protocols from forwarding entities. That's the most important point. [Alia] And NOT what IRS is doing. > Hybrid work actually does not help too much .. Especially the integrated effort. Retrieving state is not a focus as the assumption is that such state is known in the controller. However state validation or verification is something that OF need to pay more attention to - no question. [Alia] Right - Openflow assumes one controller for a switch. IRS does not. I am NOT trying to suggest/guide OpenFlow here - that is what the ONF is for. > Btw .. If IETF magically does something to equipment vendors so they will ship FORCEs enabled platforms I am all game. That would be productive. IRS as of now is more to mud the water then to come with an alternative to Forces or OF. [Alia] IRS is providing control strings to different layers in the routing system. It is not doing the same thing as ForCES or Openflow. I am sorry that you feel that proposing something different is muddying the water. Alia > Best regards, > R. > > > >> Yes, there is nascent >> work on hybrid OpenFlow switches - but that is very far from a model >> based on USING the router's OS and routing capabilities and handling >> multiple applications installing state. Retrieving state is also not >> a focus in Openflow. >> >> On the upper layer, ONF is starting to tentatively talk about >> northbound APIs - which are from OpenFlow controllers up towards >> orchestrators or applications. >> >> I don't, personally, think that IRS should cover the latter upper >> layer - though a translation layer and thinking through the network OS >> abstractions is certainly interesting and part of the ecosystem. >> >> Would you care to clearly clarify your concerns and assumptions about >> intentions? >> >> The two drafts work at defining what IRS should be; I think that there >> is a clear difference in approach and intended functionality from >> OpenFlow. >> >> Surely you aren't suggesting that the IETF should not do anything in >> this space because OpenFlow might get around to it someday? >> >> Alia >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: >>> hi Nitin, >>> >>> >>>> So IRS needs to define interfaces for both the lower layer and the upper layer. >>> >>> That's precisely what openflow protocol does. Thx for confirming clearly the intentions ;). >>> >>> Best regards, >>> R. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> irs-discuss mailing list >>> irs-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> irs-discuss mailing list >> irs-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
- [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted James Kempf
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Nitin Bahadur
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted James Kempf
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Manuel.Paul
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Nitin Bahadur
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Nitin Bahadur
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted James Kempf
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted James Kempf
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted James Kempf
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted Alia Atlas