Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next steps
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 30 July 2019 17:46 UTC
Return-Path: <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A9A12019C for <loops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VyKKBancfIy4 for <loops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5FDF120089 for <loops@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id b29so38117325lfq.1 for <loops@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7weHovtgfZVHRBy3l0zH6K1kZIeWd93R83AAHjzlPkY=; b=GbH/QrwpKCVbWx0s4+6AqTCPnPszaIHg9uu7Q9/DLysN/JjAah9hEAvFtiq9oAkAsZ wlB5LfnTMY6aOb/Eyc02HLLH0Thb0b41/uMfGqeXsFgbMcJ8zY+0/HI9N6mhIs6gmPJ+ MyNfRX2t+fZb3Wtvn1+1UZNSQt4PVM8GVYtExCn8spRqZsQeyWQ/wlqIWpiJyS0uncIx XtzIZRpEndKLjY5KoMwQj0qf9usbsmAFl6x3hMCTkKS4S8HeRbYaAkTtD6WL/0JMsA0W RPp2JyShQ96dg0QGARvVWJw8djbeblHvnN8oCNJj814B1ZaRnkUo1ok6tXvJNrNnG+a8 p+vw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7weHovtgfZVHRBy3l0zH6K1kZIeWd93R83AAHjzlPkY=; b=fQftw0IpgOyRtIrMQ8eRfZKErS50BYTQ7KAsqeWuR6hEtsfFp7b+Okx8X6dv6guU+3 +57So3J57WBFkYlgp+4/+EunNkXOTQYwDmGvLXH8jneGdTCIIndsC5LBOt32q8T2NObX +0nySPvmNfmhfdIeIcdqgoNPaQT8bgC7wkHx6Qcx7FoSaD9XpjecckCnMIwTBWKaqn4q PqUSROpA6xw7/IdlvGgk4ZOOpkqlJroSDrjI5+xAhctLVrigj3tfv6vLlkvG1mtkI6xB agA9spoqNjsqmQ76AqMiJqVp7HNCIUszDm5K/9tKPCSvoTgXq9IYFc0fndCIZhc9B0SK afjw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUflydk6BGfVHwFv5c8g+1wyWPHLFLvD9r2j21ozbMVR16kGryp m6C6WmnT2bg1gAxNkls5Drq4PHjpdV6hTTxlzRs=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwL3rSCqoGvGj+yNnuvV1QEi2sYY8YVzhyNzuNTbodt+BWKF+o8P4ZAsQXG0B2I4eyWq6BLztAY/jKD8fSV4aA=
X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5337:: with SMTP id f23mr56403101lfh.15.1564508801875; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAKKJt-eRGJe+9PtEC7xgFz+HA0zsr_sR0NUgKRmJ-P5Q3XBg-A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPjWiCSbPioTHkYBpX73qxzO=H1sJDZpCMCKzBKoU4rZLLhwMQ@mail.gmail.com> <E6659E42-D6D7-4033-B4D6-9305823063D2@tzi.org> <CAKKJt-c24RdPyZRoK-B6fXuN0xABUsU=p7Y6UFwAcENfjE3oOQ@mail.gmail.com> <A4576796-AACA-4BE1-9EF8-9422E1BAB9F3@kuehlewind.net> <CAKKJt-dCeJVhofU8eO=TXu6CVez5g9ZTdLnp206gx6X3YTx9tA@mail.gmail.com> <7b64f9e8-5b8b-6ce6-145d-2c4ccb10c62b@isae-supaero.fr>
In-Reply-To: <7b64f9e8-5b8b-6ce6-145d-2c4ccb10c62b@isae-supaero.fr>
From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:46:14 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-cn_kSvzUq7tkeSQTVB+yAD7ih=4MMfoEab0dMaa9iqYQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Emmanuel Lochin <emmanuel.lochin@isae-supaero.fr>
Cc: loops@ietf.org, nwcrg@irtf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006245af058ee9973f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/loops/TzOM3-gkqFFh5BSvUlDLhiVLFlQ>
Subject: Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next steps
X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments <loops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/loops>, <mailto:loops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/loops/>
List-Post: <mailto:loops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:loops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/loops>, <mailto:loops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:46:47 -0000
Hi, Emmanuel, On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 10:14 AM Emmanuel Lochin < emmanuel.lochin@isae-supaero.fr> wrote: > Hi Spencer, all, > > On 30/07/2019 16:22, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > > 1. How a sender tunes FEC dynamically - is that automatic, based on > FEC mechanisms people are thinking about, or is there work to do there? > 2. How a sender knows whether to do FEC, retransmission, or both FEC > and retransmission, dynamically? > 3. How a sender knows that it shouldn't be doing anything, because > anything it does won't help ("first, do no harm")? > > IMHO, each answer depends on which layer you seek to apply FEC and why. > Adding and adapting FEC at L2 or L3 does not have the same impact than at > L4 and does not lead to the same adaptive mechanism. Then, adding FEC at L4 > also depends on whether you are congestion controlled or not, you want to > stick to TCP-friendliness, your QoS objectives, and many other things... > Finally concerning #3, I would say that monitoring the e2e delay would > give you a good indication to enable FEC or not. If the delay is "small", > you won't beat ARQ. > My understanding from discussions around the LOOPS BOF is that this is intended to be transport-agnostic, so most likely L3. I haven't heard anyone talking about L2 LOOPS, but as you note, that depends on the networks that you're trying to help out. Thanks for the insight! (I thought that was true, but I'm not an NWC expert by any stretch) Spencer > Emmanuel > > > -- > Emmanuel LOCHIN > Professeur ISAE > ISAE SUPAERO - Institut Supérieur de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace > 10 avenue Edouard Belin - BP 54032 - 31055 TOULOUSE CEDEX 4 FRANCE -http://www.isae-supaero.fr > Tel +33 5 61 33 84 85 - Fax (+33) 5 61 33 83 45 > Web : http://personnel.isae.fr/emmanuel-lochin/ > > -- > LOOPS mailing list > LOOPS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/loops >
- [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next steps Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Michael Welzl
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Liyizhou
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Emmanuel Lochin
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Wesley Eddy
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Wesley Eddy
- Re: [LOOPS] [nwcrg] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOO… Stuart William Card
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Michael Welzl
- Re: [LOOPS] [nwcrg] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOO… Colin Perkins
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Wesley Eddy
- Re: [LOOPS] [nwcrg] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOO… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [LOOPS] [nwcrg] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOO… Colin Perkins
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Michael Welzl
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Colin Perkins
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Colin Perkins
- Re: [LOOPS] BOF co-chairs thinking on LOOPS next … Marie-Jose Montpetit