Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"

"Katriel Cohn-Gordon" <me@katriel.co.uk> Sat, 24 March 2018 14:05 UTC

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From: "Katriel Cohn-Gordon" <me@katriel.co.uk>
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Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:05:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
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+1

I have no strong feelings regarding the name, but I do think we are
working on groups *because* you need them for general messaging.
Katriel


On Sat, 24 Mar 2018, at 1:43 PM, Jon Millican wrote:
> Thanks for raising this point. I'm also no good at naming, but agree
> that there's potential scope to name more clearly. A couple of points
> in response to the specific issues you raised though:> 
> While most of the discussion has focused on groups, my feeling is that
> this is because group is a more challenging superset of the pairwise
> case; and we should still care about pairwise messaging. In the
> pairwise case I think the main differentiator compared with TLS is the
> requirement for asynchronicity; so if we're clearly carving up the
> territory it might make sense to highlight this.> 
> Just my 2c though. I have no objection at all to changing the name,
> and certainly agree that group support is a crucial aspect that could
> be worth highlighting.> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> On 24 Mar 2018, at 13:15, Shivan <shivankaul.1993@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1 the name seems to be inspired by TLS but the drafts concern
>> themselves explicitly with group messaging, not messaging as a whole.>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 11:28 AM Daniel Kahn Gillmor
>> <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote:>>> Thanks for all the work that has gone into the proposed MLS
>>> architecture>>>  and protocol drafts already.
>>> 
>>>  As we move toward working group formation, i'm a little bit
>>>  concerned>>>  that the ostensible name of the project ("message layer security")>>>  doesn't adequately describe the most salient features.
>>> 
>>>  We spent most of the time at the BoF in IETF 101 London talking
>>>  about>>>  the design of the group key agreement scheme and the strong
>>>  cryptographic properties we want it to provide -- and i
>>>  suspect that>>>  most of the work in any formed WG will center around that problem.>>> 
>>>  So it seems odd to me that the word "group" doesn't appear in
>>>  the name>>>  "MLS".
>>> 
>>>  I'm no good at acronyms, but i'll just throw out two alternatives:>>> 
>>>    MSG: Messaging Security for Groups
>>> 
>>>    MESSAGE: Message Encryption and Security Standard for
>>>    Asynchronous Group Environments>>> 
>>>  I hope since the WG isn't yet formed, it's not too late to
>>>  consider a>>>  change to the name.  We ought to be up front about the group-
>>>  specific>>>  context that we're talking about here, as we already have a
>>>  security>>>  layer that works for messages passing between two endpoints
>>>  synchronously (TLS) and it'd be nice to clearly carve up the
>>>  territory.>>> 
>>>          --dkg
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  MLS mailing list
>>> MLS@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls[1]
>> _______________________________________________
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