Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
"Katriel Cohn-Gordon" <me@katriel.co.uk> Sat, 24 March 2018 14:05 UTC
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From: Katriel Cohn-Gordon <me@katriel.co.uk>
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References: <87r2o9n277.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <CAG3f7MiJ5Jtxtk9OLMx10HApx7gV6xn103qaPBrGpH7kKgnQOA@mail.gmail.com> <FD644F8C-38BA-4573-B7F6-EF6AC4FEB57C@fb.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:05:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
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+1 I have no strong feelings regarding the name, but I do think we are working on groups *because* you need them for general messaging. Katriel On Sat, 24 Mar 2018, at 1:43 PM, Jon Millican wrote: > Thanks for raising this point. I'm also no good at naming, but agree > that there's potential scope to name more clearly. A couple of points > in response to the specific issues you raised though:> > While most of the discussion has focused on groups, my feeling is that > this is because group is a more challenging superset of the pairwise > case; and we should still care about pairwise messaging. In the > pairwise case I think the main differentiator compared with TLS is the > requirement for asynchronicity; so if we're clearly carving up the > territory it might make sense to highlight this.> > Just my 2c though. I have no objection at all to changing the name, > and certainly agree that group support is a crucial aspect that could > be worth highlighting.> > > Jon > > On 24 Mar 2018, at 13:15, Shivan <shivankaul.1993@gmail.com> wrote: > >> +1 the name seems to be inspired by TLS but the drafts concern >> themselves explicitly with group messaging, not messaging as a whole.>> >> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 11:28 AM Daniel Kahn Gillmor >> <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote:>>> Thanks for all the work that has gone into the proposed MLS >>> architecture>>> and protocol drafts already. >>> >>> As we move toward working group formation, i'm a little bit >>> concerned>>> that the ostensible name of the project ("message layer security")>>> doesn't adequately describe the most salient features. >>> >>> We spent most of the time at the BoF in IETF 101 London talking >>> about>>> the design of the group key agreement scheme and the strong >>> cryptographic properties we want it to provide -- and i >>> suspect that>>> most of the work in any formed WG will center around that problem.>>> >>> So it seems odd to me that the word "group" doesn't appear in >>> the name>>> "MLS". >>> >>> I'm no good at acronyms, but i'll just throw out two alternatives:>>> >>> MSG: Messaging Security for Groups >>> >>> MESSAGE: Message Encryption and Security Standard for >>> Asynchronous Group Environments>>> >>> I hope since the WG isn't yet formed, it's not too late to >>> consider a>>> change to the name. We ought to be up front about the group- >>> specific>>> context that we're talking about here, as we already have a >>> security>>> layer that works for messages passing between two endpoints >>> synchronously (TLS) and it'd be nice to clearly carve up the >>> territory.>>> >>> --dkg >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MLS mailing list >>> MLS@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls[1] >> _______________________________________________ >> MLS mailing list >> MLS@ietf.org >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_mls&d=DwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=M0CVEJydBVUX_bvEqMa84Q&m=q5KP1AJUu-4ir-39yrQWELe1gULZ7UQbevfDBrgr0ss&s=jlPCTk9fCDAvKt6l2DuFKYLJoRLEL_KXV7lPHhtlA3M&e=> _________________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls Links: 1. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_mls&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=M0CVEJydBVUX_bvEqMa84Q&m=q5KP1AJUu-4ir-39yrQWELe1gULZ7UQbevfDBrgr0ss&s=jlPCTk9fCDAvKt6l2DuFKYLJoRLEL_KXV7lPHhtlA3M&e=
- [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Shivan
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Jon Millican
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Katriel Cohn-Gordon
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Raphael Robert
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Suhas Nandakumar
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Dave Cridland
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Rich Persaud
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" jeff.hodges
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Jon Millican
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Robert Moskowitz