Re: [Ntp] New Version Notification for draft-gruessing-ntp-ntpv5-requirements-03.txt

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Fri, 15 October 2021 17:37 UTC

Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3F93A091C; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.551
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4vcDGqsjWHP5; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:37:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6317D3A0913; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:37:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0050093.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050093.ppops.net-00190b01. (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 19FG8HYg009697; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 18:37:40 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=jan2016.eng; bh=JIbC1JibrsQHlXLBrapK6mQT8Wt5YUXn36TSTfRPfQE=; b=gcvfz4gvO1SlUygUIRBc5orQtTKn0ApU0hqOO6aBHIV7hHRoaFCLV8BwwxqAWnLavVd1 xVPMdGuZ1wHNRLgaBtRPWc1R9rp+8zNoHM0Q1sE8AF6xySyRcNR/XEC8J1ac7LquRQ79 VhB/5NoWXYL++Cr6TQ77RCy6jxI6nsWg25TrAe6EXqoTEWl7J/Luc2M5QtJaD+6ncUev 5Wp4OQ1Zqx4UCeaobZR8v0KqVTd9fkGAIvUlFZoz3Y7BR4hMCw7cAl8XoqBEEnlndWVU koPnF+XLj9Tsjqh7OGSem3QgHfV1irSHkjXPP0Xw7Is/Spry0XuBgi/j19snWSStV5hV rQ==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint5 (prod-mail-ppoint5.akamai.com [184.51.33.60] (may be forged)) by m0050093.ppops.net-00190b01. with ESMTP id 3bq2fkg62p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 Oct 2021 18:37:40 +0100
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint5.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint5.akamai.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 19FH5YiY007349; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:37:39 -0700
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.53]) by prod-mail-ppoint5.akamai.com with ESMTP id 3bnf6fnkax-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 Oct 2021 10:37:39 -0700
Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.101) by usma1ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 13:37:38 -0400
Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.101]) by usma1ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.101]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.023; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 13:37:38 -0400
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>
CC: NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ntp] New Version Notification for draft-gruessing-ntp-ntpv5-requirements-03.txt
Thread-Index: AQHXwabklO0jDBO54UuTVeYVyY+J2qvUfNiA///M/wCAAEpHgP//vuMAgAAAYYA=
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 17:37:37 +0000
Message-ID: <AEE9D68A-C896-46B8-A8B3-35673FC47AEE@akamai.com>
References: <163386015957.12424.6997038478834885480@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAO+dDx=6baLhf9LwSMvR1F0ieuLO6NXmExYLDvcCF2tgchHs8w@mail.gmail.com> <DB8PR02MB5772AC97BFE2D7C1139EFDC0CFB89@DB8PR02MB5772.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com> <E469D9A7-7445-49D9-A8A2-82BA7BF1FA27@gmail.com> <1985d4ff-d4a9-5ca3-e1b8-3d5f9a2fcc4b@pdmconsulting.net> <05E3CA12-9828-4EF6-8C47-20A7D07788AA@akamai.com> <fda9f648-5f63-e33d-6604-42db3a83a073@pdmconsulting.net> <044DD110-FCED-4E07-BF35-6520EA29A07E@akamai.com>
In-Reply-To: <044DD110-FCED-4E07-BF35-6520EA29A07E@akamai.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.54.21101001
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <1D9FFB024806234683931A1305B53B82@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-10-15_05:2021-10-14, 2021-10-15 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=740 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110150104
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 4HA1ui-gWCZghWKlrmyIUm1iGf3sdS3x
X-Proofpoint-GUID: 4HA1ui-gWCZghWKlrmyIUm1iGf3sdS3x
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.182.1,Aquarius:18.0.790,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.0.607.475 definitions=2021-10-15_05,2021-10-14_02,2020-04-07_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=696 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110150105
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/VbtLeu883NQe847vg3OYBlTKWmk>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] New Version Notification for draft-gruessing-ntp-ntpv5-requirements-03.txt
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Time Protocol <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 17:37:51 -0000

Sigh.  "I am not confident that tehre is nothing in the *NTP* protocol messages ... "

On 10/15/21, 1:36 PM, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    My point on DNS wasn't about DNSSEC, but it was about the current DNS privacy protocols (DoH, etc).

    As I said, I am not confident that there is nothing in the DNS protocol messages, or meta-data, that doesn't warrant privacy. I consider myself a security person, and blanket assertions as "this protection isn't necessary" make me feel uneasy, given our history of getting things wrong.