[p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

[huang-ming.pan at comcast.net (Peter Pan)]

Agreed.

But must learn to walk and run before to fly.

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Sinnreich
To: Peter Pan ; Michael Slavitch ; K.Yamamoto
Cc: p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: [p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available


> When it is "more powerful than most most could even imagine",
> could it be just another (useless) mirage?

The Internet was such a mirage at the time of SNA, DECnet, ISDN etc. and is
now the nightmare of walled garden networks.

Thanks, Henry




From: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Pan
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:22 AM
To: Michael Slavitch; K.Yamamoto
Cc: p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

"It is this aspect of overlays, the ability to nest overlays upon each
other, that makes P2PSIP truly powerful, more powerful than most most could
even imagine, as the application space changes completely."

Which existing successful P2P networks nest upon each other heterogenously?

Which academic or technical reports support the theory of "a truly powerful
P2PSIP" with nesting overlays?

When it is "more powerful than most most could even imagine", could it be
just another (useless) mirage?

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Slavitch
To: K.Yamamoto
Cc: p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

WHEN YOU CAN MANIPULATE NODES OF MULTIPLE OVERLAYS, WHY NOT MANIPULATE THEM
TO USE ONLY ONE OVERLAY?


Different overlays will correspond to different groups and regimes, with
different rules and behaviors. The base overlay connects them together using
rules of its own.  Overlays that recurse with independent behavior allow for
rich collaboration based on organized groups with implicit security and
choice.  Hierarchical, selective or authoritative organization is but a
subset of self-organization, it is just far more automated.

It is this aspect of overlays, the ability to nest overlays upon each other,
that makes P2PSIP truly powerful, more powerful than most most could even
imagine, as the application space changes completely.  Self-organizing
automated systems could replace much of the cruft and kludge of the
Internet.  I assert that P2PSIP becomes truly useful if such overlays are
not only permitted but clearly defined for easy implementation.  It looks
like P2PSIP will go that way as long as we remain vigilant, supportive and
smart.

Regards,




On 8/24/06, K.Yamamoto <kyara543 at yahoo.com> wrote:
I AGREE HIERARCHICAL MORE EASY AND DISLIKES MESS TOO.

BUT UNLESS YOU DELIBERATELY MANIPULATE EVERY MULTI-OVERLAY NODES SO THAT A
NODE CAN SAY "HEY, MY CHORD STACK DOES NOT CONNECT WITH ANOTHER CHORD NODE
ALSO IN PASTRY OVERLAY BUT CONNECT WITH THE OTHER CHORD NODE ALSO IN BT
OVERLAY", OTHERWISE AUTONOMOUS INTERCONNECTION OF MULTI-OVERLAY NODES VERY
POSSIBLY WILL FORM A CYCLIC MESH.

EXAMPLE: LETS DENOTE A NODE OF MULTI-OVERLAYS X AND Y AS XY. INTERCONNECT
NODES ABC, AC AND BC FORMS A MESH.

WHEN YOU CAN MANIPULATE NODES OF MULTIPLE OVERLAYS, WHY NOT MANIPULATE THEM
TO USE ONLY ONE OVERLAY?


THANK YOU.
--KY


PLEASE QUALITY CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.

Juwei Shi <jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> wrote:

Yes, I agree with Seaward, hierarchically inter-connecting heterogeneous
overlays is more practical than the mesh based approach.



Interworking among heterogeneous hierarchical is more efficient than do it
meshy, you can not expect a flat huge mesh over whole world can work
reliably, the reason why mesh is used is the absence of a acceptable
standard.

Thanks.

Seaward





From: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu [mailto:
p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of K.Yamamoto
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:16 AM
To: Juwei Shi; p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: ?????: [p2p-sip] A New Internet-draft is available


WHEN NUMEROUS MULTI-OVERLAID NODES ARE INTERCONNECTED, " the interworking
among heterogenous overlays" IS GENERALLY MESSY NOT HIERACHICAL.
THANK YOU.






--KY


PLEASE QUALITY
 CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.
Juwei Shi <jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> wrote:
The NAT issues will be discussed in our future drafts.
This draft focuses on the interworking among heterogenous overlays and the
SIP-over-P2P architecture in one single overlay is proposed by E. Shim etc.
http://www.p2psip.org/drafts/draft-shim-sipping-p2p-arch-00.txt
Thanks
Juwei



??'????oo: K.Yamamoto [mailto:kyara543 at yahoo.com]
??'?????????: 2006?1?8 ???23??? 12:21
?"?????oo: Juwei Shi; p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
??????: Re: [p2p-sip] A New Internet-draft is available
THE DOCUMENT IS GORGEOUS BUT NEED RENAME AS "A MESHY ARCHITECTURE AMONG
MULTIPLE P2P-SIP NETWORKS".
FOMULA "Node-ID=Hash(Node-IP)" HAS PROBLEM WITH MULTIPLE NODES BEHIND A NAT.






 THERE IS LITTLE ABOUT P2P OR SIP, FOR ONE SINGLE OVERLAY.





 THANK YOU.





 --KY


 PLEASE QUALITY CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.



Juwei Shi < jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> wrote:
Hello, all

We have


 submitted a new Internet-draft entitled a??A Hierarchical P2P-SIP
Architecturea??. This draft focuses
 on the SIP-over-P2P architecture and interworking of heterogeneous overlay
networks.


This document is available in the Internet-drafts archive now:
http://www3.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shi-p2psip-hier-arch-00..txt
Comments are welcomed!
Thanks
Juwei
Juwei Shi
Wireless Technology Innovation Institute (WTI)
Beijing Univ. of Posts and Telecommunications (BUPT)
Tel: [phone] ext. 312
Email: jwshi at bupt.edu.cn
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