[p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

[hsinnrei at adobe.com (Henry Sinnreich)]

> When it is "more powerful than most most could even imagine", 

> could it be just another (useless) mirage?

 

The Internet was such a mirage at the time of SNA, DECnet, ISDN etc. and is now the nightmare of walled garden networks.

 

Thanks, Henry

 

________________________________

From: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu [mailto:p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Pan
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:22 AM
To: Michael Slavitch; K.Yamamoto
Cc: p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

 

"It is this aspect of overlays, the ability to nest overlays upon each other, that makes P2PSIP truly powerful, more powerful than most most could even imagine, as the application space changes completely."

 

Which existing successful P2P networks nest upon each other heterogenously?

 

Which academic or technical reports support the theory of "a truly powerful P2PSIP" with nesting overlays?

 

When it is "more powerful than most most could even imagine", could it be just another (useless) mirage?

 

Peter

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Michael Slavitch <mailto:slavitch at gmail.com>  

	To: K.Yamamoto <mailto:kyara543 at yahoo.com>  

	Cc: p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu 

	Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:53 AM

	Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] __A_New_Internet-draft_is_available

	 

	WHEN YOU CAN MANIPULATE NODES OF MULTIPLE OVERLAYS, WHY NOT MANIPULATE THEM TO USE ONLY ONE OVERLAY? 

	 

	 

	Different overlays will correspond to different groups and regimes, with different rules and behaviors. The base overlay connects them together using rules of its own.  Overlays that recurse with independent behavior allow for rich collaboration based on organized groups with implicit security and choice.  Hierarchical, selective or authoritative organization is but a subset of self-organization, it is just far more automated.  

	 

	It is this aspect of overlays, the ability to nest overlays upon each other, that makes P2PSIP truly powerful, more powerful than most most could even imagine, as the application space changes completely.  Self-organizing automated systems could replace much of the cruft and kludge of the Internet.  I assert that P2PSIP becomes truly useful if such overlays are not only permitted but clearly defined for easy implementation.  It looks like P2PSIP will go that way as long as we remain vigilant, supportive and smart. 

	 

	Regards,

	 

	 

	 

	 

	On 8/24/06, K.Yamamoto <kyara543 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

	I AGREE HIERARCHICAL MORE EASY AND DISLIKES MESS TOO.
	
	BUT UNLESS YOU DELIBERATELY MANIPULATE EVERY MULTI-OVERLAY NODES SO THAT A NODE CAN SAY "HEY, MY CHORD STACK DOES NOT CONNECT WITH ANOTHER CHORD NODE ALSO IN PASTRY OVERLAY BUT CONNECT WITH THE OTHER CHORD NODE ALSO IN BT OVERLAY", OTHERWISE AUTONOMOUS INTERCONNECTION OF MULTI-OVERLAY NODES VERY POSSIBLY WILL FORM A CYCLIC MESH. 
	
	EXAMPLE: LETS DENOTE A NODE OF MULTI-OVERLAYS X AND Y AS XY. INTERCONNECT NODES ABC, AC AND BC FORMS A MESH.
	
	WHEN YOU CAN MANIPULATE NODES OF MULTIPLE OVERLAYS, WHY NOT MANIPULATE THEM TO USE ONLY ONE OVERLAY? 

	
	
	THANK YOU.

	--KY
	
	
	
	
	PLEASE QUALITY CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.
	 

	Juwei Shi <jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> wrote: 

	 

	Yes, I agree with Seaward, hierarchically inter-connecting heterogeneous overlays is more practical than the mesh based approach.  

	 

	 

	 

	Interworking among heterogeneous hierarchical is more efficient than do it meshy, you can not expect a flat huge mesh over whole world can work reliably, the reason why mesh is used is the absence of a acceptable standard. 

	
	Thanks.
	
	Seaward 

	 

		 

		
________________________________


		From: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu [mailto: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu <mailto:p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu> ] On Behalf Of K.Yamamoto
		Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:16 AM
		To: Juwei Shi; p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
		Subject: Re: ?????: [p2p-sip] A New Internet-draft is available
		
		 

		WHEN NUMEROUS MULTI-OVERLAID NODES ARE INTERCONNECTED, " the interworking among heterogenous overlays" IS GENERALLY MESSY NOT HIERACHICAL. 

		THANK YOU.
		
		
		  
		
		  
		 
		
		  
		
		  
		--KY
		
		  
		
		  
		PLEASE QUALITY
		 CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.

		Juwei Shi <jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> wrote: 

		The NAT issues will be discussed in our future drafts. 

		This draft focuses on the interworking among heterogenous overlays and the SIP-over-P2P architecture in one single overlay is proposed by E. Shim etc. 

		http://www.p2psip.org/drafts/draft-shim-sipping-p2p-arch-00.txt 

		Thanks

		Juwei

		
________________________________


		??'????oo: K.Yamamoto [mailto:kyara543 at yahoo.com] 
		??'?????????: 2006?1?8 ???23??? 12:21
		?"?????oo: Juwei Shi; p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu 
		??????: Re: [p2p-sip] A New Internet-draft is available

		THE DOCUMENT IS GORGEOUS BUT NEED RENAME AS "A MESHY ARCHITECTURE AMONG MULTIPLE P2P-SIP NETWORKS". 

		FOMULA "Node-ID=Hash(Node-IP)" HAS PROBLEM WITH MULTIPLE NODES BEHIND A NAT.
		
		  
		
		  
		 
		
		
		  
		
		  
		 THERE IS LITTLE ABOUT P2P OR SIP, FOR ONE SINGLE OVERLAY.
		
		  
		
		  
		 
		
		  
		
		  
		 THANK YOU.
		
		  
		
		  
		 
		
		  
		
		  
		 --KY
		
		  
		
		  
		 PLEASE QUALITY CONTROL LIKE BUILDING A LEXUS.

		
		
		
		Juwei Shi < jwshi at bupt.edu.cn <mailto:jwshi at bupt.edu.cn> > wrote:

		Hello, all

		 
		We have
		
		  
		
		  
		 submitted a new Internet-draft entitled a??A Hierarchical P2P-SIP Architecturea??. This draft focuses
		 on the SIP-over-P2P architecture and interworking of heterogeneous overlay networks. 
		 
		 

		This document is available in the Internet-drafts archive now:

		http://www3.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shi-p2psip-hier-arch-00..txt <http://www3.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shi-p2psip-hier-arch-00.txt> 

		Comments are welcomed!

		Thanks

		Juwei

		Juwei Shi 

		Wireless Technology Innovation Institute (WTI)

		Beijing Univ. of Posts and Telecommunications (BUPT)

		Tel: [phone] ext. 312

		Email: jwshi at bupt.edu.cn 

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