Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Mon, 20 May 2019 09:10 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEAA120041 for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 May 2019 02:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.3
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gll-gYw10Xs7 for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 May 2019 02:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39B11120151 for <pearg@irtf.org>; Mon, 20 May 2019 02:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A74256A275; Mon, 20 May 2019 11:10:28 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1558343428; bh=NcblLdm8UAU2t0AsMoGIJIC7z/tQwxRn3wbmXC88sZM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=1B3CY9VPtV69m7LbsK0Adqn/nasEneySdozgh8mtM6Wsu5SRJkMUqRtRa62Qzhgt5 YT1tp7kzz4tEtDEas0Nkm6Stq56KhbZbIjdvIG38leoUTNo6qUgBZYOaJmcsbI7K12 uRLRo0zycxVm8nUGxNgk5Ng01vd//EMOyVibS8PdF9i/nntAbYFle+ZAd775J6vTf6 aCH/2xRqHvToacsFYJ+NIhLv6Q0guFpJdyd+3rryvnHwHsLTamj6Am0KNPHhYvFSKo HF7XNrZi1BAlZjiYHI2/307yDC9E3Si3vb7miQY1enJ+pQbVaeRQvjjO0imG4LQOT1 cOO9uLyDMuL0g==
Received: from appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com (appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.222]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9AE8D3C006C; Mon, 20 May 2019 11:10:28 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 11:10:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Reply-To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org>, pearg@irtf.org
Message-ID: <542887485.4822.1558343428572@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <d1dd5c3a-ba10-406e-d7d7-fc8c07d7ea10@article19.org>
References: <CABtrr-Ubq5z_Nx4-VA7gLgGMaxOBvfpSpXKJfeO9Q9C9eCA8Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJm22JazQHLN=zZ_RpAwYX5AcUuws6nan-4jShzLwSbz2ysHsQ@mail.gmail.com> <e88b630d-b979-185b-e744-977ab080baad@cs.tcd.ie> <1397790134.3745.1558087203082@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com> <d1dd5c3a-ba10-406e-d7d7-fc8c07d7ea10@article19.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Medium
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.2-Rev4
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/8Zr2EPt2MMJTo1YXcFqrt0v6N-I>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech
X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG <pearg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pearg/>
List-Post: <mailto:pearg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 09:10:35 -0000


> Il 19 maggio 2019 03:37 Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org> ha scritto:
> 
> To be fair, Facebook faces fines in the order of tens of millions of
> euros if they fail to block something they should have blocked.
> Over-blocking has indeed been a persistent concern among those groups
> who have argued that blocking is not a good solution to any particular
> content moderation problem.

It's true that, in the end, most independent blocking decisions by private companies derive from the fear of legal trouble, which by definition derives from a law and thus from a political/governmental decision. So I see why you could argue that most private censorship still indirectly derives from governmental pressure (the other big case I see is that of pro-intellectual-property upload filters, which until a couple of months ago were not legally mandated, but were privately adopted to avoid potential litigation with copyright owners; but one could say that this was still a consequence of a legal framework biased in favour of protecting commercial IP rights).

There are however a few cases in which it's quite hard to establish this connection; think for example of the Google Shopping case[1], which IMHO is indeed a form of private censorship. This does not derive from indirect legal pressure - on the contrary, it was ruled as illegal - but only comes as a consequence of private business interests.

In the end, I am really afraid of a future in which more and more censoring power is in the hands of private companies, so I would like the draft to cover that as well.

Ciao,


[1] https://www.beuc.eu/blog/how-google-is-eroding-consumers-freedom-to-choose/
-- 
 
Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy