Re: Proposed Charter Text

[Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Magnus,

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 9:35 AM Magnus Westerlund <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Spencer,
>
> See below,
>
> On Thu, 2020-01-30 at 15:17 -0600, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
> > Hi, Magnus,
> >
> > I have one question.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:22 AM Magnus Westerlund <
> > magnus.westerlund=[e-mail]> wrote:
> > > WG,
> > >
> [SNIP]
>
> > > The fifth focus area will provide an Applicability and Manageability
> > > Statement,
> > > describing how, and under what circumstances, QUIC may be safely used,
> and
> > > describing deployment and manageability implications of the protocol.
> >
> > When Mark was talking about QUIC futures in TSVAREA at IETF 106, I asked
> about
> > this focus area.
> >
> > Mirja and Brian have faithfully kept this work going from the early days
> of
> > the working group (timeline is at
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-quic-manageability/), but
> it's not
> > moving very fast (
> >
> https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-quic-manageability-06..txt
> is a
> > six-month diff), and I noted that MOPS had a QUIC troubleshooting
> discussion
> > at IETF 106 (in their first meeting after being chartered) (
> >
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-mops-quic-and-streaming-00
> > ).
> >
> > I pointed out that this work was in QUIC because there was no other
> place to
> > put it when QUIC was chartered, but now that MOPS was chartered, and
> seems to
> > have such topics in scope, there was an opportunity to move it into MOPS
> and
> > let the operator types chew on it. (My experience as "Spin Bit AD" was
> that
> > operators do show up in QUIC when management topics are on the agenda,
> but I
> > don't think they've engaged much on this draft).
> >
> > Actual minutes from TSVAREA 106:
> > Spencer: Operations/mgmt draft isn't on the list. Huh?
> >
> > mnot: Yes, they're important, but not getting enough attention right now.
> >
> > Mirja: Those are WG items.
> >
> > Spencer: We had QUIC ops/mgmt considerations in the QUIC working group
> > charter
> > because there was nowhere else to put it. Now that Media Operations
> (MOPS)
> > has
> > been chartered, they're already talking about measuring troubleshooting
> QUIC
> > from
> > an operator perspective in their first working group session. Maybe this
> > document
> > should go into MOPS?
> > I understood Mark to say "interesting idea, we'll think about it".
> >
> > Is that still on the table someplace?
>
> So I think this do require more thought and can be considered for the next
> recharter that will be more substantial. However, from my perspective I
> would be
> careful to move to much of the management parts out the QUIC WG. The
> protocol
> defining part do need to consider its impact on managing the protocol. That
> can't simply be ignored. However, if there are certain aspects of the
> management
> and operational part that make sense to move then I think that is a
> reasonable
> option.
>

Well, sure. That's why I agreed to add the management and applicability
work to the QUIC charter when we approved the working group. :-)

I was mostly thinking about ways to move the work forward a bit more
quickly, potentially with more operator input. And there may be other ways.

And I agree that this requires thought, especially with two ART AD slots, a
TSV slot, and one OPS AD slot turning over in March, as of yesterday's
Nomcom announcement (only one ART AD will be replaced, of course), so
thinking between IETF 106 and 107 would likely have been premature.

I just wanted to make sure it hadn't slid off the table, for when it's not
premature.

Best,

Spencer


> Cheers
>
> Magnus Westerlund
>
>
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