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RE: QUIC ossification

Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> Thu, 14 February 2019 20:42 UTC

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From: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>
To: David Benjamin <davidben@chromium.org>, Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
CC: Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
Subject: RE: QUIC ossification
Thread-Topic: QUIC ossification
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We actually agreed at the interim to leave downgrade protection as future work, since this is currently the only version we care about.  A future version would need to be accompanied by an extension to v1 that provides downgrade protection.  🙂

If we start actively flexing version negotiation, of course, we probably need to revisit that decision.

From: QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of David Benjamin
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:39 PM
To: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
Cc: Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>; QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>; Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
Subject: Re: QUIC ossification

At least in the TLS incarnation of this idea, yes, the point would be to support both V1 (for normal clients) and the rolling version.. That does not require the client reject V1 for this to work, presuming your version negotiation has downgrade protection. (Being forced onto a version other than what you would have naturally negotiated is a downgrade.)

I'm not familiar with QUIC's negotiation mechanisms, but I certainly hope you all are downgrade-protected. That's generally important independent of these kinds of games.

David
On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:59 PM Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com<mailto:mikkelfj@gmail.com>> wrote:
Version of the month is problematic:

Google server would need to support a basic V1, otherwise non-chrome user agents would fail. Chrome browsers would have to reject V1 or the greasing won’t work. This can only happen towards Google servers. Middleboxes now check for V1 or Google domain. Eith future encrypted request domain, it is a perfect wsy to firewall Google via Chrome. Users switch to other browser.


________________________________
Fra: QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:quic-bounces@ietf.org>> på vegne af Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net<mailto:mt@lowentropy.net>>
Sendt: torsdag, februar 14, 2019 6:08 AM
Til: Jana Iyengar
Cc: QUIC WG
Emne: Re: QUIC ossification

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019, at 15:48, Jana Iyengar wrote:
> Basically, I'm proposing that QUIC v1 be assigned a random number for its
> version at RFC publication time.

What property do you expect that to provide?

> Anyone who wants to use a different version for v1 MUST request it from IANA first before using it in the wild.

This too. What does this achieve?

I get that there seems to be the emerging view that unmanaged codepoint space is not good and we should ask IANA to manage it for us, but I don't understand what these proposals would provide.

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