Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?

tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com> Mon, 02 November 2020 12:18 UTC

Return-Path: <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D7A3A0EAD; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:18:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.696
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0YXNVw089_rr; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:18:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0FF43A0E99; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:18:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF1EF406F5; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:17:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F697F406F5 for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:17:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org
Authentication-Results: rfcpa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xdfPUo6oUmlx for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:17:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr40128.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.4.128]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4615CF406D8 for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 04:17:40 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=OWif6libl3/slWeA62KfiT0Wd22VPCdhB479/hSTwhFbDdKdXcP+EDnY5QRKgUIdEZoFYRqQnHDfi+VfLAxUEu3PV0uL3CklzhX0WsH4T81Uf4EPKA2q3EUYtylAKJdGOlHFqGQW0D2Tlw+BD9XEyy5O/2zJAwr6nWIY9JgiCmSSIpRaT12ZTwM5yOgfQ0MMhEUipNqEkZ5aZkSHoUcsGiQuJyMQ9pKdyFhRGMEJryTl6qJGupdxEFIKmMTXyMUArRhy5MYrDWFbbvvHLfkun6q+D+5qTiPhgQnA8P1Sp/YI9tCHNBOGwN9T+j5ZnvjytapWDpEC5y0HQahqmWf4kQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=KkNBpiprdzd5iOdXt1NFvMbvctiq6LIkMuFcZu1OQ44=; b=GCgzZnBqpK4WIkOdlFZiLXHxbsOsLWBD1xaExh+OwpOZNp7xDG4liCwXe47f7sbXzRNXagK91ntVGWTUhYjTl5n5bJVfdu28qMAEPyHxE3bFrD+7gyHqP2u40PPC4MUya+wqsDOp+QAKjZmBiLux8ebw3bopVmcSPWV4wXDVLs9oNY8/HSGO4txoqNXLaLjfFdsAMXoRduXXK3pbIiyzPc74hXgoLNQ1rTxqxoEwvvntx30UMb0aSVSbh1xaW4mJNN3k3Th847DUfQ/trx7qgaZ9CPId81HleO1VWFYVlS8C3I2Snvu1Wz0LCx7SN8xtC0OSWV4Kzhsr4LzgyDH2fg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=btconnect.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=btconnect.com; dkim=pass header.d=btconnect.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-btconnect-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=KkNBpiprdzd5iOdXt1NFvMbvctiq6LIkMuFcZu1OQ44=; b=drd0wdmgOyI91sYbaGaVf7gNXgWHycg7qAiztQWbGkgM9TcUR8GkyK2LnxtbZ1PrBCXfH6CCSpybsliecO5nNFpP0OQhx0YthbMFi7QgSChZnIKacyMLeBFHcsH+jvzvfzSd5hvPePw8DMsOnLExEZKovfv7tt2gGiOd0luljRc=
Authentication-Results: rfc-editor.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;rfc-editor.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com;
Received: from VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8) by VI1PR07MB6270.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:139::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3541.10; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 12:17:56 +0000
Received: from VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6407:6ea2:f517:eeae]) by VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6407:6ea2:f517:eeae%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3541.010; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 12:17:56 +0000
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
References: <20201026181442.GA2438@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <D2D0455D-8D6C-4A19-ACAE-4DD972D83DC1@bluepopcorn.net> <20201028164053.GB12700@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <263C265C19B24BA97AF48934@PSB> <225062D7-C061-4543-8665-53A4F4831510@isc.org> <20201029005519.GT39170@kduck.mit.edu> <A05242FC-C38C-474F-A2AC-412329CA5C52@isc.org> <CAKq15ve-kAFZWH_f7=1XXC5PfxvO-sAzppB1fVTyqUufLftkVg@mail.gmail.com> <D2DB703DBF2A44A19B8F80DD@PSB> <CAKq15vdFVkG6_grNtqUqq-yDwj9QQcHJFZB5+RB-8fdxQXhFSw@mail.gmail.com> <fa36e919-b1a0-5b3c-9b42-54c6fdaadfb@iecc.com> <e8554ea2-1849-279f-733d-5798de8817b9@gmail.com> <26d1ff54-777f-884b-e35-d91e9fe59662@iecc.com> <00a1fc15-7559-96c6-7cd7-3ae5afd62237@gmail.com> <a34f219b-7c76-4b48-4844-5af3cd4f344@iecc.com> <be8dce95-2b4c-52c8-7eda-8a9b127a6dd4@gmail.com> <cdc14c1-54c9-5273-584c-ddb656912952@iecc.com> <5F9FDB7E.1080805@btconnect.com> <ae44e31b-964a-7901-4883-72abb0dbb8d3@gmx.de>
From: tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <5F9FF8EA.9020809@btconnect.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 12:17:46 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0
In-Reply-To: <ae44e31b-964a-7901-4883-72abb0dbb8d3@gmx.de>
X-Originating-IP: [86.146.121.140]
X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P123CA0101.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:139::16) To VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18b::8)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from [192.168.1.65] (86.146.121.140) by LO2P123CA0101.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:139::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.20.3499.19 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 12:17:55 +0000
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: fc011f63-d1e4-4ab3-3764-08d87f29544e
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: VI1PR07MB6270:
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <VI1PR07MB62705C565A35C6A5D554A412C6100@VI1PR07MB6270.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: s5U1cTH9ID1os2r3F5Od/qhAELZ/3ncOABVP/xx1JWb1oN5VkPpkUixweWjVcXvqgCKvIft4hNiMJOlcCL5sbOHvi0m6fXqg6/I5j2YeSww/lXuwKWYNjIP+odPvODEAGg09PruMjgi6R7tM+g9liS59S1FEcVV7+hspmHN8eEiYUw+Tyu0AZO9RVWqh4rvtFGTuU6+xDcblob7te+dQJtvdNyMQfOEc2+2Y7G/joYulyOkN8CCFRqLoZnLtjBprvJ6IJPcLh4LR78sgH0vfzrsv5k8ONZijGXDa1+x9ZiuY7yVbGDG0cAfyvZLY4sqCerYS4QPoG6TiI/YjtStOuV6tZSFX3z8SoFxGvQYpi6x4IpyM+PNfcyhp3SRKDf4Fs+NA9tq1EfHC5ZfxW1Xf5w==
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(346002)(39860400002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(66556008)(8676002)(478600001)(26005)(8936002)(66476007)(66946007)(5660300002)(6666004)(6486002)(33656002)(87266011)(956004)(2906002)(53546011)(52116002)(2616005)(36756003)(186003)(16576012)(16526019)(316002)(966005)(86362001)(83380400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fc011f63-d1e4-4ab3-3764-08d87f29544e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR07MB6704.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2020 12:17:55.9177 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: Rr2zRXgrEXQn8YU+UYtcd9g1ZM1754qiMzPF/RZJ+csNPvWnk4ipWIgLmob4rMPD5tJuzNo9biicAgaQ3zLjIg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB6270
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." <rfc-interest.rfc-editor.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/options/rfc-interest>, <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.rfc-editor.org/pipermail/rfc-interest/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest>, <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org
Sender: rfc-interest <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org>

On 02/11/2020 10:34, Julian Reschke wrote:
> Am 02.11.2020 um 11:12 schrieb tom petch:
>> On 01/11/2020 14:59, John R. Levine wrote:
>>>>> What formats do you believe don't have section numbers?  They're in
>>>>> all
>>>>> three rendered formats and in the XML as tags like "section-3.1".
>>>>
>>>> They aren't in raw XML and they aren't in kramdown, so they aren't
>>>> where
>>>> an author needs them when processing comments on an I-D. (So, strictly,
>>>> that isn't an RFC format issue, but it is an issue created by our
>>>> format
>>>> choices and it's quite an annoyance.)
>>>
>>> Sounds like yet another thing that could be improved with better
>>> tooling. Adding and updating comments with section numbers isn't exactly
>>> rocket science.
>>
>> YANG modules do not have section numbers and can be 50 (five zero) pages
>> long and the same identifier (e.g. 'status') can appear multiple times
>> in different branches of the schema tree and the tree can be over 10
>> levels deep so providing the absolute form of the identifier of the leaf
>> that you are commenting on can take more than one line.  Reference by
>> page number is so simple (even ADs use it:-).
>>
>> Tom Petch
>
> And is it absolutely mandatory that the YANG module appears in a single
> chunk?

It is like writing anything in code, modular is better than spaghetti, 
but there is a limit to how far that can go without creating a spiders 
web of interconnections between modules.  The i2nsf I-D I just looked at 
is 55 pages split into three modules and I would not subdivide it any 
further.  YANG modules must be self-contained and comprehensible, 
independent of the RFC they come from so in a well written one, a large 
part with be text description; and the whole idea of YANG was that it be 
text-based, unlike the binary encoding of SNMP, so you have text 
identifiers, type, references to RFC, IANA etc.  It all mounts up.  Five 
pages would be very small.

Tom Petch

Tom Petch




>
> Best regards, Julian
> _______________________________________________
> rfc-interest mailing list
> rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
_______________________________________________
rfc-interest mailing list
rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest