Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Thu, 05 November 2020 22:59 UTC
Return-Path: <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-rfc-interest-archive@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C053A0112; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.649
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nr0zdVdkeFwB; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04F6D3A010D; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E47F40708; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Delivered-To: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98268F40708 for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rfc-editor.org
Received: from rfc-editor.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rfcpa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gyRcMunbvZ5L for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppsw-31.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-31.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.131]) by rfc-editor.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7534FF406F5 for <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>; Thu, 5 Nov 2020 14:59:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found
X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virus
Received: from grey.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.57.57]:34050) by ppsw-31.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.137]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) id 1kaoE5-0005Od-Lj (Exim 4.92.3) (return-path <dot@dotat.at>); Thu, 05 Nov 2020 22:59:29 +0000
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 22:59:29 +0000
From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
To: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
In-Reply-To: <26d1ff54-777f-884b-e35-d91e9fe59662@iecc.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2011052234320.20609@grey.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References: <20201026181442.GA2438@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CADaq8jdSeTDWy_0fCV25ykxKFMV1ZBtUMMNesoOuaXCzFVfpOA@mail.gmail.com> <D2D0455D-8D6C-4A19-ACAE-4DD972D83DC1@bluepopcorn.net> <20201028164053.GB12700@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <263C265C19B24BA97AF48934@PSB> <225062D7-C061-4543-8665-53A4F4831510@isc.org> <20201029005519.GT39170@kduck.mit.edu> <A05242FC-C38C-474F-A2AC-412329CA5C52@isc.org> <CAKq15ve-kAFZWH_f7=1XXC5PfxvO-sAzppB1fVTyqUufLftkVg@mail.gmail.com> <D2DB703DBF2A44A19B8F80DD@PSB> <CAKq15vdFVkG6_grNtqUqq-yDwj9QQcHJFZB5+RB-8fdxQXhFSw@mail.gmail.com> <fa36e919-b1a0-5b3c-9b42-54c6fdaadfb@iecc.com> <e8554ea2-1849-279f-733d-5798de8817b9@gmail.com> <26d1ff54-777f-884b-e35-d91e9fe59662@iecc.com>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
X-BeenThere: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "A list for discussion of the RFC series and RFC Editor functions." <rfc-interest.rfc-editor.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/options/rfc-interest>, <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.rfc-editor.org/pipermail/rfc-interest/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest>, <mailto:rfc-interest-request@rfc-editor.org?subject=subscribe>
Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org
Sender: rfc-interest <rfc-interest-bounces@rfc-editor.org>
John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote: > > My point was that if you want a mechanical reference to a section > in an RFC, the RFCs we publish now have them. I think that when you have neither page numbers nor paragraph numbers then document authors ought to be much more keen to have lots of numbered subheadings to make it easier for people to refer to a particular point. (Actually I think more subheadings are good regardless of numbering!) Numbered paragraphs would make references even easier. The C standard has paragraph numbers but they are not written in a way that suggests exactly how a reader should refer to them <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf>. There have been a few RFCs with paragraph numbers, e.g. RFC 2671, RFC 2845 (I don't know if this is a Vixie-ism or if other authors did it too) and they helpfully include the full dotted section number so they make it clear how to refer to them, and they give you more context if you are lost in a wall of text. I had a look for recent RFCs with problematic lack of numbering and the first I found was RFC 8923. There's a figure in section 6.1 without a number. There's a huge list of protocol features in appendix A which a reader can only refer to by name (if they don't want to depend on a particular web site), and which can only be located by searching (awkward if you are reading on paper). These problems can be avoided within the current technical style but it needs a change in editorial style to ensure the table of contents has a high enough density. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/ Sole: East 5 or 6. Rough. Fair. Good. _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… David Noveck
- Re: [rfc-i] Nothing like a Poll: RFCs with page n… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [rfc-i] Nothing like a Poll: RFCs with page n… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… David Noveck
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… Carsten Bormann
- [rfc-i] Setting Reply-To Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… Jim Fenton
- Re: [rfc-i] FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (… Jim Fenton
- Re: [rfc-i] Setting Reply-To Derek Atkins
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Warren Kumari
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Mark Andrews
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Mark Andrews
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] [irsg] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs wit… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Leonard Giuliano
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … Black, David
- Re: [rfc-i] [irsg] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs wit… Jane Coffin
- Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page … John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… tom petch
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… tom petch
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Robert Sparks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… tom petch
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Tony Finch
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Tony Finch
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… John R. Levine
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] RFCs with page numbers (pretty… Tony Finch