Re: [Rfced-future] Issue 147 [WGLC Review of the draft]

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 04 January 2022 02:36 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B163F3A1492 for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Jan 2022 18:36:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7fL7EUWlRufK for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Jan 2022 18:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 304EC3A1493 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Mon, 3 Jan 2022 18:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id s6so33569632ioj.0 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:36:52 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bwHvmzp8my3D2MdKwFHEgbUD3ohPYCENe/ZMVGsgBu4=; b=WLB1hU1zOHC6ilNmkyeu4nlALCfbl83iYZOEJDWR+3c37Aet81ZhOgYo8mqvmG5YzT AQbdCsXUPJw48f9mkmizLUcf0FRis6beXR4Mwa3Z/Zsid1ZDYc0cN7IRrL2D6dUtUTwd UQmuwWnnz8uu8OGA95inQlAdr/z7+u3QLKw+Xcm7ylVPsau1p62/j7nnr2Sa5wVb/hEj Zm4qrVgUr56ZrT2/VvO2TSc+rAYzUXFN2HRFvyjD34RSAWcksrUp4btMN1SpZxuoo50A ujTcB0jnD0neQoO1elgdOsDdMuOe9gurkrXtDo2xLLQpz36y6UKQs5U3ScHFclgRkGqQ kR+w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bwHvmzp8my3D2MdKwFHEgbUD3ohPYCENe/ZMVGsgBu4=; b=snsPgiBTkLy82BYoiHx6dWspA3VYoeOS3qcipWQrWUWGRlUBEl/e+cxj4tYpFafAB/ dL/Jl+JGnhSXvjffMO74eyZDNPwO0srywPsj4INKb0P+PW8NLSC+KjbeEiVQ04cZc6xp JQfcXAOIFDY76AcT1LKYo3T1ycJLk9H3LZjaUugMTURvO60LbIsbXHRy4I9Y2DFNOQGP cyfHlNcrAD3phlfQ2M+Y9DZ9ymQBbwO5K4eT5EFtjM5hLi4YAQ/+wwChsra3ClaFEGKS guDAELyagsGUDeD8jWiBon1Z6xbEj75fvGcTbqZaEwS87qAC8e4OxgMBv1kfUGEyI8KH FR5Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531A2MJYWV+EZ2KkFrdVySeafdaa8EjWTlajMyRTu2qRZu+sZQBt tT9/953zgAPylT98hCoTnY8dYc/v2k4EdLUkXFPl/w==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw3hgWmb5MEu40ksVA3pI+gZqaYrEVKTlgbHobSh3QjDSwIXjwE1M55EYe9rro26bD+pZ8ezBtEPUPS77x2Fow=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:3409:: with SMTP id n9mr22094082ioz.148.1641263811035; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:36:51 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CABcZeBO3-q+SMTFNZyeC50eghFs1CJNSLojmr1Zip1g_nsGZHQ@mail.gmail.com> <d7ce7879-2324-69d1-0770-e104aff6c68c@stpeter.im> <CABcZeBMtZUa9cdr6a7znjdMY3UwNPpg2d0d4KwosfmzE1KqmxQ@mail.gmail.com> <06414ab1-c53f-e542-52ff-800b99c23ef1@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <06414ab1-c53f-e542-52ff-800b99c23ef1@gmail.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:36:15 -0800
Message-ID: <CABcZeBPTPjRWBqkQzzOpTkOVj+yCQdup4rSWp=Ca+r653bicjg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, rfced-future@iab.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000709aec05d4b88285"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/Gf58WvIGDxGNf4cxJI8N-Ui3X6g>
Subject: Re: [Rfced-future] Issue 147 [WGLC Review of the draft]
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2022 02:36:57 -0000

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 5:26 PM Brian E Carpenter <
brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04-Jan-22 13:43, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>
> On one point only:
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 4:39 PM Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im
> <mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 1/3/22 5:19 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>
> ...
> >      > Issue 147: This requires the RPC to keep certain records,
> >      > e.g., of dialogue with document authors. Does that formally
> >      > happen now, or is it just in people's e-mail folders?
> >      > Do these records need to be public?
> >      > https://github.com/intarchboard/program-rfced-future/issues/147 <
> https://github.com/intarchboard/program-rfced-future/issues/147>
> >      > <https://github.com/intarchboard/program-rfced-future/issues/147
> <https://github.com/intarchboard/program-rfced-future/issues/147>>
> >
> >     It's not clear to me whether all record-keeping needs to be public.
> It
> >     might be acceptable that records are kept and available on request if
> >     needed (e.g., in case of an appeal).
> >
> >
> > I think that would be OK. But do they keep records at all?
>
>
> I can't answer that. But I suspect that there might, rarely, be matters
> that would be considered private, especially for the Independent Stream
> if publishing a proprietary spec. So any policy for making the records
> public would need to allow privacy exceptions.
>

Agreed. I don't actually have strong feelings about any of this and would
be fine if we struck this text. I'm just trying to review it from the
perspective
of "does this say what we want" and "can it be executed"?



> However, I just glanced over the messages in my archive about AUTH48,
> and I can't see any case that seems private. Even in a couple of cases
> where advice was sought from the (former) RSAG, I don't see anything
> sensitive.
>


> One small point: if we add text stating that future records will be
> public, or available on request, we'd better state that this is
> not automatically retroactive for previous records.
>

Agreed.

-Ekr


>
>     Brian
>