Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
"Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com> Thu, 14 November 2013 22:16 UTC
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From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com>
To: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 22:16:20 +0000
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
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You don¹t have to speculate. Motorola (now Google) sued Microsoft over H.264 patents. No one intervened, so there is no obligation nor incentive to do so. However, because this involved standards-essential patents, and Motorola participated in the standards, it has FRAND obligations for those SEPs, with a clear precedent for FRAND royalty rates established by MPEG LA for that standard. The result was Microsoft has to pay half a cent in royalties per product they ship containing an H.264 codec, but Motorola must pay $15M for breaching SEP/FRAND obligations (by demanding $4B). If Nokia sued anyone over H.264, a similar result is likely. This is what people mean when they say H.264 IPR risk is low. Everyone that participated in the standard is bound by SEP/FRAND obligations, and can¹t demand much more than they would get if they were licensors in the MPEG LA pool. For all the hate MPEG LA gets, here is an example where its existence actually limits the extent anyone can leverage patents to demand unreasonable royalties. VP8 does not yet offer such SEP/FRAND protection. If it infringes any patent, the patent holder may demand unreasonable royalties (or even no license terms, in the case of Nokia). Mo On 11/14/13, 3:53 PM, John Leslie <john@jlc.net> wrote: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Leslie <john@jlc.net> wrote: >> >> Basically H.264 has quite a consortium to slap down the likes of >> Nokia in court should they sue anyone in the consortium. This greatly >> reduces the chance of Nokia's lawyer suing. > > > What makes you think that? I am not aware of a requirement on MPEG-LA > to get involved in any lawsuit that involves a company suing somebody > over a patent that is part of the H.264 pool. I didn't mean to say the _consortium_ has a legal obligation to get involved in a lawsuit against one of their members -- but they do have an incentive to do so. In fact, I suspect it's other _members_ of the consortium which will pay their lawyers to get involved. My point was that suing one member of the consortium looks less attractive when other members are likely to support each other. > On the contrary: if you get sued over VP8, you will likely find that > Google has an interest to support you. I sincerely hope they would -- but there is nothing to convince Nokia lawyers not to file suit in the first place. -- John Leslie <john@jlc.net> _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If… Mike Linksvayer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… David Singer
- [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Kaiduan Xie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Michael Thornburgh
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Philipp Hancke
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Philipp Hancke
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Göran Eriksson AP
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Marco Stura
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Kaiduan Xie