Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.txt> (WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements) to Proposed Standard

Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 02 March 2016 23:10 UTC

Return-Path: <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2343E1B340C for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:10:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65m_N7iTHeho for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:10:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qk0-x234.google.com (mail-qk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8986D1B341D for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:10:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id x1so1947394qkc.1 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:10:04 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XZZvZqd2/XvPbZ+Yf9SpoSGRZyB8tNIve0skANFh1U0=; b=acJjpo0wo6EGx9JsJ9It8MYSXKBKRk+fj7xF9zicr7U+qVjofzNcMQmMCG256eFS8m g2Ejy4ywgtZIrn8laVEHLVyq1YkJfd+zJKUyfctNcK5QUD34An6/VUd3pAHXnJJMzOKp 1prHfzuSovxbBbL08olrX9WoAdqvrqKx+zBsJvNcFB5bpWSs8IX59B4M/VFGvU/XzhSV 1dE0U2c5/GNB/l8quYpIBZfVR2adZBfRl65lsCaNRq56sTypZWSEK6jeQVqpSpRYOl3J pNtVgGFIRn66bs1FpEkqzEx14PHzyTrJj5L0rhBwS/5XWt26Y3PESxgebKD9N60WoCuY 8HZQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XZZvZqd2/XvPbZ+Yf9SpoSGRZyB8tNIve0skANFh1U0=; b=gkjKvEraInoANX7if6UTPT/8n/E3GLKwO1WSCvgAK8r3iAbOSNkvGsVF/fCUH1Z0lV UV+jumHJHgdnQmBOwTlRaxfmLzcBlDjtZYwlGGJXbGpBndcqM1Xqn74TgHBUDqU4N+HE nkpxC3cjAoJ3yBvokRc4IFWZMc7la3OFv3CrXbH7REdBRd1gnZK8x3dEUmCt+r0QcRC4 wMKi8C8BAYMJNdeQXT0Ev9InBNi7genwIQ0fzcriIgrMHqSOY2i7Cbt1qa+B5ExW0vDz JHPg79/8mo9P1hIs2FUhCbxyI2Fr9qQ70yUcFEDGYxvtIWw2/53bOHX9WNnGmufwKeo8 RC9A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLuUXYqdRNCFWJotWAVNfs7nJRb9CXIgiTWWuf+tvMSWjn+zaN09JRZf4kCDwF1jaTi1s6WoPItk1O+JA==
X-Received: by 10.55.195.16 with SMTP id a16mr36584369qkj.36.1456960203667; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:10:03 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.55.6.13 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 15:09:44 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR0301MB1551CDEEA6EA1C7A696972B7B2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20160224213121.376.85278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAD5OKxuQT2hdDHWdVxHGEcC3PuMMDjpaBpfAygRBa7-kdv79Rg@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB15519E82B0384EF6EC348B72B2B80@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <56D1A080.7050901@alvestrand.no> <SN1PR0301MB1551A6D49F18116A70A107CCB2B80@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CA+9kkMB5pye7-tXgBFrzk+F-3dApY-4pEX_1Foob-ug6dmztXg@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB1551506B16DC14D555E98AD4B2BA0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CA+9kkMAxR0_HzpqM3aQwVBX51G87+ZnYpd7AEwHsw0unpcPV1w@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB1551C791B62BC7311DB3897CB2BA0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CAD5OKxtonFCucoou8Es+0RCuBx-oa++w5__=EBXT7kVToksE4A@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB155111CC2AAC4D3B0962B3E6B2BA0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CA+9kkMAk_jPu5Pd1kU6aEh2au5x-tE4v+c9zU5nzx64t47DUmQ@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB15518F98FD31A3BAE6505079B2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <56D55FE9.60408@alvestrand.no> <SN1PR0301MB15512FBBCA5186B4829FEFA8B2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <1447FA0C20ED5147A1AA0EF02890A64B374B9596@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <SN1PR0301MB1551D1333297368D66B150ACB2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CAD5OKxvf+HBknqxXXY=_t9sCFGUFMUczu6k5DkMS-M8aV0Sjxw@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB1551006A8D73179743E85322B2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CA+9kkMBGzjJFbLpo4te12tpaFFS_aoEXmoARudkq1EbZ5AnuYw@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB1551CDEEA6EA1C7A696972B7B2BB0@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:09:44 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+9kkMA++uB6p0QYgWtgYtd9ysa9F5jb2wZnSm=Q-Fgig06_zg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Asveren, Tolga" <tasveren@sonusnet.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11479d86643fa1052d18fbd3"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/W1BF40BP4X0kZhbvmwhsgk2ZGXc>
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.txt> (WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements) to Proposed Standard
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:10:20 -0000

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Asveren, Tolga <tasveren@sonusnet.com>
wrote:

> “that there will be a range imposed by browsers”
>
> Why are we assuming this? There should be some justification for this
> statement (and this is what I fail to see/understand but am really open to
> good explanation for the need for this). The model I presented has a
> “default value” for browsers not an “enforced range”. Those two are
> different things.
>
>
>
We are assuming it because some of the browser vendors participating have
said so. Other data would be, of course, welcome.

Ted



Thanks,
>
> Tolga
>
>
>
> *From:* Ted Hardie [mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 01, 2016 1:58 PM
> *To:* Asveren, Tolga <tasveren@sonusnet.com>
> *Cc:* Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>; Stefan Håkansson LK <
> stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>; Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>;
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.txt>
> (WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements) to Proposed Standard
>
>
>
> Hi Tolga,
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Asveren, Tolga <tasveren@sonusnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> ii- As another general principle, introducing a restriction without a good
> reason is a bad idea IMHO. So far, I yet have to see a good argument in
> favor of an enforced range (other than that we should assume that
> intelligence level of app. developer’s is equal to a chimpanzee)
>
>
>
> This is not a fair characterization of the point that has been made, and
> I'd appreciate your being careful with your wording.  The point that has
> been made is that there will be a range imposed by browsers and that
> standardizing that range avoids the complexity of discovery and/or random
> failure modes.  If you are arguing that there will be no enforced range at
> all, then the browser makers' assertion to the contrary seems to be
> problematic for accepting your argument.
>
> regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
>