Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.txt> (WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements) to Proposed Standard
Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> Fri, 26 February 2016 21:56 UTC
Return-Path: <roman@telurix.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C26A1B3124 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.278
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6qk7QCrAlc03 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7DBA1B311F for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 9so131271457iom.1 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:27 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=6N1PVQvPwNdNq4vVOqxlsaP6Oyse0Rd3cZz44Pxalhg=; b=BUyzaFYSLQBP3QDmtt5JxYRmb9no83NpfbIsIzcYHUgdFCSLrtzq6PwXRWLaZyXJqU sOXnKoYqUKFN3R0apCDFEdD+xK50KB6cWwinoF8+dhMH0O7KHRRLU5IdcMsbp1JsFRJ4 M9td9fpKiPbsCrpj+BGQuiCGtbVo6Xnb8fmwSTM1/MudSxAtzEE4HN3iNMRJIHxkm+oc Lg5nEHIprlpeHLjvQR8IDB1wdCl+IAI7fESsKghMuGAMavKZty6DBMlj0yTbvAY1x79q wdft0Q9ahvUPMxZPURAp1lmW+qKnIXvsihD1PlCBAw3oACEuanDpaj7t6U8feHpgIQ6V Uf7w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=6N1PVQvPwNdNq4vVOqxlsaP6Oyse0Rd3cZz44Pxalhg=; b=iJOzeyUC790xYCYgGflgKtw25X+msy/og9eNIKbsUfqqY5B5KQVnvYW8/DeJ9sfwXa hTYWjW4JRkLNgGKOoxusVRrbHcQZ+h2KxmLA8d6SrzfhSnRivBGIero19h9avnMIRfX3 lP1ibiaYFwO9XlP7LwNAF6RAnO3g2D5R1aqnTxw2foana7FhP1kQjQYAImeOljtJIAti xr/Y+I9SstB2WeGVZ0IBGzZ1/YovwjedxFF89WrUkK4YD+mCpfsWAPI4Zk9T3ZU1TKl6 h/NEJXjEPE3ZjTtARdnbTH5VaqHE1Kim/dI7jr6LjHcIxlaHuzBivsKNBhLPmg6E5jPJ +bAg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOT7xpdcC6ilwtpYkfxzsY8/aYJ7MC5pLw0N7Ld+HDYds5bMFPvhH8uPwMN/38ocZg==
X-Received: by 10.107.167.80 with SMTP id q77mr11899861ioe.110.1456523787252; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ig0-f173.google.com (mail-ig0-f173.google.com. [209.85.213.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o201sm6098945ioe.15.2016.02.26.13.56.26 for <rtcweb@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ig0-f173.google.com with SMTP id y8so44654713igp.1 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:26 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.28.48 with SMTP id y16mr206493igg.2.1456523785746; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.105.77 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 2016 13:56:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR0301MB15518B65A2E7D2ACFE2663B4B2A70@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20160224213121.376.85278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAD5OKxsa9cwYOLqkHDVjoe2vr8NoOsPYO7jD_4TPNSnxU7u53Q@mail.gmail.com> <56CE2CF4.70001@jmvalin.ca> <CA+9kkMAqNZiHX7asFZnNgMnJw3G2bPBB7zXfLex3xdkfcW2tQQ@mail.gmail.com> <SN1PR0301MB15510A18734956A22BD5FB5AB2A60@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CAD5OKxu3HSKDNMNhEWHgoBrHj4zOvjwbGFQSyLmBgLo6cL2Lhg@mail.gmail.com> <56D000EF.9010004@alvestrand.no> <SN1PR0301MB15518B65A2E7D2ACFE2663B4B2A70@SN1PR0301MB1551.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 16:56:25 -0500
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAD5OKxuQT2hdDHWdVxHGEcC3PuMMDjpaBpfAygRBa7-kdv79Rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD5OKxuQT2hdDHWdVxHGEcC3PuMMDjpaBpfAygRBa7-kdv79Rg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
To: "Asveren, Tolga" <tasveren@sonusnet.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0158b360db4afe052cb35e3b"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/gz_XDSBG5rfac6aFvxhIRJbVQp0>
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.txt> (WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements) to Proposed Standard
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 21:56:29 -0000
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:19 AM, Asveren, Tolga <tasveren@sonusnet.com> wrote: > i- I think w3org should have followed the lead of IETF in this issue > rather than the other way around, i.e. the values recommended by the IETF > specification should have been cited in the w3org document IMHO. > I agree completely. I am not aware of any IETF document that defines DTMF or RFC 4733 tone duration limits, so I proposed to add these limits to draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio. Most importantly I wanted the text from W3C reviewed in IETF since it was clearly a network related. Furthermore, anybody implementing WebRTC compatible RTP audio interface should not need to read the API document to find the network specific limits. ii- The reasonable value range could depend on the negotiated codec and > that would be known at the time of interesting the digits; so anything with > MUST strength is too restrictive IMHO. > We know that RFC 4733 would be used to transmit DTMF tones from WebRTC endpoints. RFC 4733 has no upper or lower limits on tone duration, so technically these can be set to anything or not set at all. Some people argue that we should limit number of foot guns for future API users, so they wanted to have reasonable tone duration limits. iii- The presence of transcoding/interworking (between different forms of > digit transfer) devices (they will be there, whether we like it or not, for > certain scenarios) makes it even less desirable to have MUST strength > mandates. > Unfortunately I spend a significant amount of my time dealing with transcoding elements (SBCs) dealing with RFC 4733 tones. Sending tones which are too short or sent at high rates make such transcoding elements generate unexpected or broken DTMF sequences. Reordered or interleaved tones are commonly generated in response to such sequences. Extremely long duration DTMF digits typically break into several digits. There is danger in not having reasonable limits. The decision if API users should be protected from this danger is up to this group. iv- I think adding some text regarding gap/duration of digit packets could > be fine but I rather would prefer it with “recommend” (even not RECOMMEND) > (and providing some values only as examples). > I agree that having reasonable recommended values should be sufficient for most cases. The group has to decide if it wants to protect the developers from themselves and set MUST level limits on tone and gap duration. _____________ Roman Shpount
- [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-10.t… The IESG
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Roman Shpount
- [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Barry Dingle
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Fwd: Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-a… Asveren, Tolga
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-… Jean-Marc Valin