Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing)
Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de> Sat, 08 February 2014 09:16 UTC
Return-Path: <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA5D1ADF44 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 01:16:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.086
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.535, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id seennMCExbpc for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 01:16:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-n.franken.de (drew.ipv6.franken.de [IPv6:2001:638:a02:a001:20e:cff:fe4a:feaa]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3981ADF33 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 01:16:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.200] (p54819A15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.129.154.21]) (Authenticated sender: macmic) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0111C0B3E5C; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:16:52 +0100 (CET)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\))
From: Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>
In-Reply-To: <E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17826DFD4581@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 10:16:49 +0100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <23A98499-FA93-472A-B762-92BF72EAC2F1@lurchi.franken.de>
References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D15E955@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <74072016-DA11-41E8-9944-779428163EE4@lurchi.franken.de> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D15ED94@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17826DFCF6C8@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com> <B304F67A-9EA2-44A0-86DD-9DD0E21CB86F@lurchi.franken.de> <52F4182F.60404@alvestrand.no> <E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17826DFD40C3@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com>, <CABkgnnXMYt7teSpxm7chTvQPR8ThKzKQ_bq3Po_FNFv2tdBFGQ@mail.gmail.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D163B26@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17826DFD4581@US70UWXCHMBA02.zam.alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)" <Raju.Makaraju@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510)
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 09:16:57 -0000
On Feb 8, 2014, at 2:14 AM, "Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)" <Raju.Makaraju@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > That's good. Glad to see that no one liked the complex alternate option... yet! :-) > I just put it there for completeness and some discussion. > With "utf-8 on wire", which I too think is the right approach, there is some spec work todo: > 1. Define IANA utf-8 ppid. Creating a new one is better instead of replacing existing DOMString as DOMString may be used by browsers for sometime to come and also to have backward compatibility/interworking. > 2. Data channel core spec (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-06#section-6.6) need to specify explictly the wire format is utf-8. Anu objections? If not, I'll put corresponding text into the spec. Best regards Michael > > Then browsers need to do the conversion from utf-16 DOMstring to utf-8 before writing on wire also in the reverse direction. > > -Raju > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 6:01 PM >> To: Martin Thomson; Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: >> Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing) >> >> >> + 1 >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: rtcweb [rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Martin Thomson >> [martin.thomson@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, 08 February 2014 1:45 AM >> To: Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: >> Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing) >> >> I don't think that we need any complication here. It's a string. >> >> Strings are UTF-8 on the wire. >> >> Strings are UTF-16 (mostly) in JavaScript. >> >> Anything else would generate pain. >> >> On 7 February 2014 14:01, Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> <Raju.Makaraju@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: >>>>>> Also, I think "DOMString" PPID is too specific to Javascript, instead >> it >>>> should probably have a generic name like "UTF-16 String". The send API >> can >>>> still use DOMString as this is Javascript API. >>>>> Any comments from others? >>>> >>>> Note: The WebSockets protocol defines the transferred strings as UTF-8. >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6455#section-5.6 >>>> >>>> As far as I can tell, we've always intended to follow that example. >>>> >>>> The fact that Javascript implementations currently choose to represent >>>> text strings as UTF-16 at their API is sad, but not an argument for >>>> sending that particular text representation over the wire, or reflecting >>>> the name in the API. >>> >>> [Raju] I agree that using UTF-8 is desired and more appropriate! Then, >> should the PPID be changed from "DOMString" to "UTF-8"? Javascript based >> apps have to use some library to do the conversion of DOMString/UTF-16 to >> UTF-8. Alternatively, browsers can do this conversion under the APIs (send >> and onmessage) before sending and after receiving UTF-8 PPID data. >>> Without such conversion webrtc interworking between browsers and native >> clients will be problematic (basically, will not work). >>> >>> Another option, which is more flexible, is to define PPIDs for different >> encodings like "UTF-8", "UTF-16" (or even "base64" for binary to text >> instead of using "binary" directly); then pass this encoding information to >> send() and onmessage() calls, which will use these PPIDs. Passing encoding >> information might be implicit (like Javavscript DOMString) in most languages >> by the type of the argument to send. This way it is upto the application to >> deal with the encoding conversions as it see fits. >>> >>> The latter approach is best suitable for interworking between clients of >> similar type (web or native); but it is bit painful (to do conversions) for >> clients of different types. >>> >>> I am wondering what kind of API calls native WebRTC API stacks (e.g. >> Google Chrome's http://www.webrtc.org/webrtc-native-code-package) provide >> for data channel send/onmessage ()? UTF-16 strings? Or UTF-8? >>> >>> -Raju >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for p… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB D… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)