IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [saag] post-X509 cryptographic identities

Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com> Tue, 11 February 2020 12:26 UTC

Return-Path: <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBA6120116 for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UR-HgoROVJdk for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0FCF120112 for <saag@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id q15so9823972qke.9 for <saag@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:53 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:reply-to:cc:subject:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language; bh=fRxuSMPy5S1BaeRu5fVRlWZkMjz7LOYPia1Q58dC31Y=; b=N5SdDU204tfx0r1UMflr0P31hQ1s+EwWuiCkjEKW6d4UJi/Oj6YOcsO0XiYxF1gMKo cXlDXGtoC9Lqt/lZ8uicc9TLjknpsNoLuk5X0/lS+DMrpS2zxkbpuwjy9NmJgPeyvHl1 fGTxAfzD+9CijgO7GDJvkh6Lxifn11l2DVTEO7oFUq+JuYLhAVs2XVUBrOG/XXZCbV7K zaC4iFTuqdP1HA3naXA+4kOyN6QOFh0MXbvaj/wG6OrF1eRqwQgh0dSgRM18bx3VV9P2 mJ1hNIRNf7Z81SOP1lkff5e0PM5npgFWvl4tiZUOJI8SaLJmzcw63l0mpzSQMsXct92j 7jtQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:reply-to:cc:subject:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:content-language; bh=fRxuSMPy5S1BaeRu5fVRlWZkMjz7LOYPia1Q58dC31Y=; b=shc4wBC5jHW/fFWSTmzc+pfhRY+M/NW+gKDttqs0CDx8HeA5QseUWwLH1u9QvIwSXA 3NcYDUnLmnAeoWgzJT3xo5e1yqnUthECTNRsXBN87INquvfZntv2yhOcymLnsmxlXzgg 91lcq2RaVNtBORciAq2RbO2j7iO5BYQ0kpXbIbbct67GAC2O/6NW/zl+m3dHs3fATzmh 6coSse1a10BlTpXCCNf/zwfmNME7TZf5wDmL8Uh0WZykZ7OOqJklQ5SNuIsKes8AQhQR R7ZbGdZHnFdzvamZDJYUU1nvyZ+uMPuFbbo5qRaaIb+RICzumu6J8F+6BH7YIw8s3hxT nVlQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXneusGMotB8hOW2CF6fO52UWedzMg21qqFX02u4Zs5qD65i/Bi zXxWYH1eR2tytOwcWc1ogpC0kg/7w/A=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqysNpJxwlw6gOyS9rL8coCtZZk9CcTnsVgHtIsoRxuyU0DUKCYAhmMkLVGXKeMv+zHPVzRHAA==
X-Received: by 2002:a37:5f43:: with SMTP id t64mr5763453qkb.68.1581424012322; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.53] (pool-70-106-222-98.clppva.fios.verizon.net. [70.106.222.98]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8sm1876020qkm.92.2020.02.11.04.26.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Feb 2020 04:26:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski.netmagic@gmail.com>
X-Google-Original-From: Tony Rutkowski <trutkowski@netmagic.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Reply-To: trutkowski@netmagic.com
Cc: saag@ietf.org
Organization: Netmagic Associates LLC
Message-ID: <ac360994-e747-6913-fdc3-19b7db2e00c3@netmagic.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 07:26:50 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EC1765B7DB47579114F8C08D"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/mx1HWdN7rKWY20zEWLwYpdMhYtA>
Subject: Re: [saag] post-X509 cryptographic identities
X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag/>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 12:26:56 -0000

> > to try see if there's any consensus on a post-x.509
>     > direction towards which to head.
>
> I agree with you strongly.
> A centralized, single CRL from the single global PKI was certainly 
> among the
> original ideas envisioned.
> Then we decentralized the PKI, add CT and added OCSP.
>
> Now we are unifying again :-)
> Mozilla could, for instance, create a new higher-level CA, sign all of the
> existing trust anchors they ship, and effectively be back at X509.
And who is going to assume the antitrust liabilities?  See, e.g., 
https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/6/21125026/big-tech-congress-antitrust-investigation-amazon-apple-google-facebook

X.509 has the advantage of originating as a government SDNS standard 
that became and intergovernmental one.  The antitrust culpability in 
this arena recently is a magnet for antitrust enforcement already.

--tony r

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email