Re: [sidr] Burstiness of BGP updates (was: WGLC: draft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-reqs)

Russ White <russw@riw.us> Wed, 16 November 2011 01:31 UTC

Return-Path: <russw@riw.us>
X-Original-To: sidr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sidr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC87B11E8138 for <sidr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:31:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.372
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bxR0gVWM00Na for <sidr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:31:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ecbiz91.inmotionhosting.com (ecbiz91.inmotionhosting.com [173.205.124.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6A511E812C for <sidr@ietf.org>; Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:31:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [107.17.45.77] (port=65335) by ecbiz91.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <russw@riw.us>) id 1RQULN-0007aH-5w for sidr@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:31:17 -0500
Message-ID: <4EC3125D.4000309@riw.us>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:31:09 -0500
From: Russ White <russw@riw.us>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: sidr@ietf.org
References: <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C49308E9E35567@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1F85D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <m2fwhqeq5i.wl%randy@psg.com> <CCE759E6-BEA6-433B-957A-6559C67BAD52@ericsson.com> <DCC302FAA9FE5F4BBA4DCAD4656937791452387941@PRVPEXVS03.corp.twcable.com> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1FE9F@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <DCC302FAA9FE5F4BBA4DCAD4656937791452387978@PRVPEXVS03.corp.twcable.com> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1FEC8@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se>
In-Reply-To: <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1FEC8@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ecbiz91.inmotionhosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - riw.us
Subject: Re: [sidr] Burstiness of BGP updates (was: WGLC: draft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-reqs)
X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing <sidr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sidr>, <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr>
List-Post: <mailto:sidr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr>, <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:31:19 -0000

>>> I can not believe that it will be 2X.

It will likely be worse.

> Now, for a regular update that changes the bestpath, the signature
> will likely come later (in my proposal). If it replaces an existing
> valid path, the bestpath will not change until the signature arrives.
> If it replaces no path, then the regular update will produce a bestpath
> change, but the signature will not.

So you are arguing that if you have two signed paths, and you receive a
new unsigned path replacing one of the signed paths --in fact, replacing
the signed path that is currently your bestpath-- you would keep using
the old bestpath even though it has a lower security preference than the
other existing signed path.

How does a system that says, "replay attacks are okay, you may accept
unsigned information over signed information, it's okay if timers are
expired, it's okay if AS' in the middle of that path can be attacked
through replays, etc.," really provide security? I'm seeing a lot of
work for little to no net gain here.

:-)

Russ