Re: [Slim] Issue #27 on draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language

[Gunnar Hellström <[e-mail]>]

The text in draft version -08 related to issue #27 has changed a lot 
since the version commented in LC.

It is currently:

"5.4.  Undefined Combinations

    With the exception of the case mentioned in Section 5.2 (a spoken
    language tag for a video stream in parallel with an audio stream with
    the same spoken language tag), the behavior when specifying a spoken/
    written language tag for a video media stream, or a signed language
    tag for an audio or text media stream, is not defined."

The referenced part of section 5.2 says:

"   Note that while signed language tags are used with a video stream to
    indicate sign language, a spoken language tag for a video stream in
    parallel with an audio stream with the same spoken language tag
    indicates a request for a supplemental video stream to see the
    speaker."

I think that is close to what we want. But we need to have decisions on 
if it is exactly what we want.

Points for decision:

1. Can we use the term "a spoken/written language tag" in 5.4? Addison 
Phillips did not like our use of that term in another paragraph, now 
reworded. I suggest to replace it with "a language tag used for a spoken 
or written language" and hope that is easier to accept.  However with my 
solution proposal for point 3 below, this problem disappears.

2. Are we satisfied with the solution that we cannot indicate use of 
text captions embedded in the video stream? It was long ago that I saw 
conversational products placing the text captions or text dialogue 
overlayed in the video stream. It is still in heavy use for streaming. 
So, if we do not believe that our specification will be used for 
streaming services, I think we are satisfied with the current 
limitation.  We had a proposal to always use the -Zxxx script subtag 
when we mean spoken modality, and usually no script subtag (or a 
specific script subtag when motivated for the languag when we mean a 
written modality, but there were some reluctance to that use of the 
-Zxxx script subtag for this purpose.
I suggest that we are happy with the current limitation, but want to 
hear others' views.

3. Are we satisfied with the limitation described in the section 5.2 
citation, requiring a spoken language tag used for the video stream to 
mean a view of a speaking person only if an audio stream has the same 
language tag assigned. I think that limitation is not needed and 
complicates the use.


Conclusion:

With my proposed resolutions on these points, we should change the two 
paragraphs cited above to:

"5.4.  Undefined Combinations

    The behavior when specifying a language tag for a written language for
    a video media stream, or a signed language tag for an audio or text 
media
    stream, is not defined."

The referenced part of section is then proposed to be:

"   Note that while signed language tags are used with a video stream to
    indicate sign language, a spoken language tag for a video stream
    indicates the view of a speaking person in the video stream."


If other than my proposals on the points are decided, the wording needs 
to be adjusted accordingly.

/Gunnar




Den 2017-04-25 kl. 20:25, skrev Bernard Aboba:
> Currently 10 Issues remain open from IETF Last Call:
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1
>
> These include:
> Ticket 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=ticket&asc=1&page=1> 
> Summary 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=summary&asc=1&page=1> 
> Component 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=component&asc=1&page=1> 
> 	Version 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=version&asc=1&page=1> 
> Milestone 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=milestone&asc=1&page=1> 
> 	Type 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=type&asc=1&page=1> 
> Owner 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=owner&asc=1&page=1> 
> Status 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=status&asc=1&page=1> 
> Created 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/report/1?sort=created&asc=1&page=1>
> #27 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/27> 	The cases in the 
> "Silly states" section 5.4 are not all silly. 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/27> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 	new 
> Mar 22, 2017
> #19 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/19> 	Use Media Type 
> registration template <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/19> 
> multilangcontent 	
> 	
> 	enhancement 	[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]> 	assigned 	Aug 17, 2016
> #28 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/28> 	Examples section 5.5 
> requires expansion <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/28> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 
> assigned 	Mar 22, 2017
> #32 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/32> 	Audio/Video 
> Coordination <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/32> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 	new 
> Mar 22, 2017
> #34 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/34> 	Use the 
> Accept-Language syntax <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/34> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 
> assigned 	Mar 22, 2017
> #35 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/35> 	Have an attribute to 
> abbreviate the bidirectionally-symmetric case 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/35> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 
> assigned 	Mar 22, 2017
> #38 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/38> 	Routing out of scope 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/38> 
> negotiating-human-language 	1.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]> 	new 	Apr 
> 25, 2017
> #39 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/39> 	Syntax Collapse 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/39> 
> negotiating-human-language 	1.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	defect 
> [e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]> 	new 	Apr 
> 25, 2017
> #26 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/26> 	Make use of the 
> asterisk modifier on media level with session scope also for media 
> level purposes <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/26> 
> negotiating-human-language 	2.0 	milestone1 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/milestone/milestone1> 	enhancement 
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> 	new 
> Mar 22, 2017
> #29 <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/29> 	Include more fields 
> for attribute registration from 4566bis 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/slim/ticket/29>
>
>
>
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Gunnar Hellström
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