Re: [Softwires] comments on draft-carpenter-softwire-sample-00

[WashamFan <[e-mail]>]

Hi Remi,

Personally, I think it is very meaningful to address tunneling
IPv6 over IPv4 with NAT traversal issue, especially in China.
We have less IPv4 address space assigned at the first place,
compared to the huge population, the address per person
ratio is very low, I suspect some ISPs have already deployed
some kind of NATs somewhere in their network. (As myself,
I got 10/8 from my provider). In the other hand, we bought
CPE outselves, the ISP can not control the CPES most of
time, I am afraid. That is very different from that in Europe
or America, I guess. My impression is, from my experience
surfing the Internet, I would go thru one layer NAT (deployed
by my provider in my residential building) and a 192.168
network (somewhere in the SP network) before I hit the 
Internet finally. 

When my ISP is going to provide IPv6 to me, let's say,
6rd as the first step, the existing complex network arch would
hinder the classic 6rd deployed.

I am looking forward to the new combined proposal.

Thanks,
washam

----- Original Message -----
From: Rémi Després <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:03 am
Subject: Re: [Softwires] comments on draft-carpenter-softwire-sample-00
To: WashamFan <[e-mail]>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]


> Hi Washam,
>  
>  As Brian suggested, it might be best to wait for the new proposal (we 
> work together on it).
>  It is intended to combine, improve, and complete, 
> draft-carpenter-6man-sample and draft-despres-softwire-6rdplus. 
>  
>  Traffic between two NAT44 sites is, as you suggested, always based on 
> hairpinning (simpler and, even more important IMHO, resistant to all 
> odd NAT behaviors).
>  
>  Its other distinctive property is that hosts behind the same NAT44 
> communicate directly within their site using their IPv6 addresses.
>  
>  Your comments will be most welcome when the draft is available.
>  
>  Regards,
>  RD
>  
>  
>    
>  Le 28 sept. 2010 à 03:49, WashamFan a écrit :
>  
>  > Hi,
>  > 
>  > Please see inline.
>  > 
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>
>  > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:17 am
>  > Subject: Re: [Softwires] comments on draft-carpenter-softwire-sample-00
>  > To: WashamFan <[e-mail]>
>  > Cc: [e-mail]
>  > 
>  > 
>  >> Hi,
>  >> 
>  >> On 2010-09-27 21:05, WashamFan wrote:
>  >>> Hi,
>  >>> 
>  >>> It says,
>  >>> 
>  >>>   The SAMPLE server will act as an IPv6 router.  In the simplest 
> case,
>  >>>   it will forward all IPv6 packets to a default route, except those
>  >>>   whose destination address lies within the PSAMPLE prefix, which 
> 
>  >> will
>  >>>   be encapsulated and sent towards the host (CPE) and port 
>  >> indicated by
>  >>>   the V4ADDR and PN values.
>  >>> 
>  >>> 
>  >>> I think it is not appropriate to assume NAT traversal without
>  >>> relay can be always successful. 
>  >> 
>  >> I don't understand your comment. If you have a NAT that you cannot
>  >> traverse with UDP, you have many other problems, not just a lack
>  >> of IPv6 connectivity.
>  > 
>  > I misunderstood. I thought the text implies direct tunnels established
>  > instead of hairpinning via SAMPLE server when SAMPLE client to 
>  > SAMPLE client communication occurs . 
>  > 
>  >>> Hairpinning might be always used
>  >>> for simplicity.
>  >> 
>  >> Yes, that is the SAMPLE model. And it's a discussion for the
>  >> community whether or not this is acceptable.
>  >> 
>  >>> 
>  >>> I'd like to know the status of the draft, is the WG pursuing this
>  >>> work?
>  >> 
>  >> There are three drafts aiming at the same problem, SAMPLE,
>  >> draft-lee-softwire-6rd-udp, and draft-despres-softwire-6rdplus.
>  >> Please hold your breath, there's hope of a joint proposal
>  >> from several authors within a few days.
>  > 
>  > Is it possible to combine all these efforts? I see 2 major 
>  > difference between  draft-carpenter-softwire-sample-00
>  > and draft-lee-softwire-6rd-udp-02 at least:
>  > 
>  > 1. According to the IPv6 address assignment, SAMPLE
>  > is  to connect isolated IPv6 hosts but 6rd-udp is to connect
>  > both isolated IPv6 hosts and LANs.
>  > 
>  > 2. They are different in terms of IPv6 address assignment
>  > procedure. SAMPLE uses ND but 6rd-udp might use RADIUS,
>  > let's say.
>  > 
>  > Personally, I think it is meaningful to work on tunneling
>  > IPv6 traversing NAT, but I think we should justify the work
>  > by clarifying how bad Teredo did the job before we reinvent
>  > the wheel.
>  > 
>  > THanks,
>  > washam
>  > 
>  > 
>  >>    Brian
>  >> 
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