Re: [Spud] updated draft PLUS charter, rev. 1 June

Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Tue, 07 June 2016 22:10 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CF812D89B for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.326
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.326 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YgWhdooDa21B for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA69912D5FC for <spud@ietf.org>; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [128.9.160.211] (mul.isi.edu [128.9.160.211]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u57M9mnk007446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
References: <85E24D9D-F666-49C3-A022-2F207227A153@trammell.ch> <CAD62q9UiLi1ffGPm=xEXOSH=sqZPv7hYiNBTGvAX52a9dhV8yg@mail.gmail.com> <CAD62q9U7XL8hDqY1VdzuvUvoz0Ec5DDLAS6=kaLxRExu7FY0Kg@mail.gmail.com> <86027402-2F05-4E3B-B9CD-26517A4F007C@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <A4C63A75-9D7E-430E-B986-9981FB929D46@gmail.com> <CA+9kkMBhJ2oCJ1avnGUY4NYTX0VWA_g=YoJSiLcy6u9hJnH-eA@mail.gmail.com> <57573DCF.1030402@isi.edu> <F6BE4EE1-D320-421E-9D86-2F30B2A88792@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <CALx6S35Z7iEp2F7+1PHzAe0qu9st_CNXB9GCzF278HehFiv0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Message-ID: <0f5628e2-a142-8d83-b427-d6b07183cb9e@isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:09:47 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CALx6S35Z7iEp2F7+1PHzAe0qu9st_CNXB9GCzF278HehFiv0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-MailScanner-ID: u57M9mnk007446
X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spud/wsNJjdJa5uT-MekbMtbwAV4FSeo>
Cc: Aaron Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.com>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, spud <spud@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Spud] updated draft PLUS charter, rev. 1 June
X-BeenThere: spud@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Session Protocol Underneath Datagrams <spud.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/spud>, <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spud/>
List-Post: <mailto:spud@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spud>, <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 22:10:08 -0000


On 6/7/2016 3:05 PM, Tom Herbert wrote:
> The proper architectural solution is to place network layer
> information like what is being proposed in the network layer :-)
> Trying to make a network layer out of UDP fails on several accounts
> (fragments don't contain UDP headers, ports do not have global
> meaning, etc.). IPv6 extension headers are designed for carrying
> information like this, I really hope there is more investigation as to
> whether they are workable for signaling.

It depends on what layer is actually doing the signaling. If it's
on-path, I agree - that's network layer and should be somewhere besides
the transport header. If'it's on-path but not from the endpoint it also
begs the question of whether IP packet headers should be extended
in-transit (I made the case long ago that this was valid for IPv6 but I
think someone is working to close that loophole or already has).

Joe