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[TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3

Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> Mon, 04 May 2026 20:03 UTC

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Date: Mon, 04 May 2026 16:02:48 -0400
From: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
To: tls@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <683ee377-6d9c-49ad-b4cc-962afaa1388d@appelbaum.net>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3
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On Mon, 4 May 2026, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:

> Long-timers can be wrong and given the Dual_EC history and various related 
> drafts, they might even be wrong twice

IETF was never wrong on Dual_EC. It never tried to standardize Dual_EC.
There were individual drafts about adding more (strong) randomness only.

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2017/12/19/the-strange-story-of-extended-random/

 	Since Extended Random was never standardized by the IETF, it shouldn’t
 	be in any systems. In fact, to the best of our knowledge, BSAFE is the
 	only system in the world that implements it.

See also: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/rc3VjZTlBR08PmwtCECUD9-VHyw/
which explains what happened from the IETF point of view - a discussion
thread you were part of at the time it happened.

Your staement that "they might be wrong twice" is therefor incorrect.

Paul

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