IETF Logo Mail Archive

[TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3

Bas Westerbaan <bas@cloudflare.com> Tue, 28 April 2026 07:27 UTC

Return-Path: <bas@cloudflare.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD181E480053 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1777361247; bh=YJqzKHHdOcH2tWC5Xp56YYnU4EI8D8Cu0BH/Ud+Pmy4=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc; b=RgItu+vcM61YLqFaKhrzdwnXpIL+GvUo5Zzg0jKyqzwG6u1YbJFkFBdaAK8HYE0RG HVHzAvj/K6+wlXy/RfqESjCBeVkyglavBnkphqVxrJA2H9c8xJjClToc3ueMDNGVyv miIJZnbzPBkNZtSzJBFt/tKMUpaK4uxXGEeGulcE=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cloudflare.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xODV5bqDjT70 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yw1-x1130.google.com (mail-yw1-x1130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57DBCE48004C for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yw1-x1130.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7baee75f874so93163777b3.2 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1777361247; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=c2t5PUQEE/M9bVyA38MKbOC9G38lViauZgSSzAPtVBSuAN7jSoXrX5/s8FPZpnpU1C texveT39UyN+fA8ropshtpOwwgLn4xLZZv48WFd4Qg6DGUx4N3VEvss+dNbHz1D8kj+B IAbRd80Po3W5vrpGshd0jSU8I6RcIoAoWhX01ryFUqzSErWr7EcxqhQYU0f3LbLyCYc3 MCFKv4e9yyMa08KbzGbVmp0sQwNd5GtOqNEQ8nszcW9u1gPujK6XfgItJ4t4C+X4e1bZ jWs3HCVR9JsId8sfi3B1mXKkl87jHVu7Ajo+KUoNVAh1DYicRJRr8LmpBjQdFcXaJVrk PAZw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=YJqzKHHdOcH2tWC5Xp56YYnU4EI8D8Cu0BH/Ud+Pmy4=; fh=47iagf3xjofOlO9ECK+cSOUXgF7gUuKdlrDGFpYStdU=; b=Ll+zW+c6QvoJr0Vgy8teLiU9M3hk+JffHZR6j3kiFrH1IGMz7X64Manjp3mWLdfojT v4AKV3SHRI9bOmQbldyS7clp9eJ8BlVyKuS6K9WLYkV8A3DnN6lLRY5Ns7Ns0eN1hSB0 36Iq0SUr3JIaP4M+JDkNlsUxIsepOu/+4Woceve2HjZAisJIzVQBqStlSdQJglNKVjHn vZA91VzPGLeS1IbEiveJ+xsVWuWWU5faFxVn/4+26pC3rON4CsoWbe8zUOR1OM25JEXW Vkwel+NqHsR0luAsMUF+zAcTGf/vaEATZpHGUYL/eiElTHv3SRGpNP5wKGP9vcxb9/wE wjOA==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudflare.com; s=google09082023; t=1777361247; x=1777966047; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YJqzKHHdOcH2tWC5Xp56YYnU4EI8D8Cu0BH/Ud+Pmy4=; b=O+WS/kyEFSvbGxCj1nPMlHqkhzHtaEuDwM+0Z1gUcECd7zceHvqbtczbrj0B71t5lY NVezMebiwM6mj4vBonOps2VIja9b33O+JfJX2h8MjKKlVJ39AjfApCm5OUbK4fdNkLTW U2ROvgPihAOAfgfhEkBEOEkuXC3HFt6XkBf3nhwxToKfWUcCkGGc6BYnSde9LLZXhdQj zHpGkxTaKCKhRO2cKQSXa2zaW08l3ALgP9dt+3+J2vEbJDBn8Lk2bxpHlcCzEgY3vL9P DgsNFqkb8ALfY3nhpxXjX/24tb1IdKcVX0Cd+8aIkWirmQwor/3lmbU2nEbMafvCPkpy f8kw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1777361247; x=1777966047; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=YJqzKHHdOcH2tWC5Xp56YYnU4EI8D8Cu0BH/Ud+Pmy4=; b=s/YvOFAEGo5wo6ybdn5cX5RoRH/Iy/230lNP4r1H+gjiWw9AAK7+xDSuRA9FZUptDe GaGT03WO5kGc90cKBdi0UexLu8ynLXNrVIa5Fizsgdkd5cGGjS++LozPPv6j6SHrYPF/ VwyQ/GtJk6zoDSmgcb3AsMEXUv81xentPaY8ZvK4q3URJsrThU8EBrPFCRROq1kKxUP8 aSBI0+SDjuBxQwcVLQLNyip+BuWM2FFdbEjuDQvmiE//yphLPIpEXBTIrNj2xSKa3VeN pUJ0IVR2k0xII9KH98F2kTelPK/xjKciSytlUxE8ClCFYjhZWRg3vMVtsyCNRB9ahhlH zobg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw5yx6Je1M8+iqfycDts8mMN3Nv5sDJ9fgZG+3kdntVGQXYPOGN Xy2l6hnHUTgOETXOOEzB1Ox5sxmXIUJf+KV5qjsHW3s3YUjVeO7SqPq3Abwpy5IqVxxTmfF1p2f 5xot+j9SyAlv2DRFMPDyaFc1neQVL8DLjx7DMmjhD6l0AXb4niiyeDzcPbQ==
X-Gm-Gg: AeBDieuIxi6sG6VIZbvYZHEqogts4fqWd8iNzrKCzjIolTyHsKXssYebJy2RHcIi1+L Qxkw0s/oOPbiUuWrfSXafdasgLDrqej9LHwKRpDdchNRp7NOg1QZ17T7wkZZF+2Y/03WYNsnM7W SscCo48bBisJrOzVvxmdW5mYfotTdj5C+qo2AReTbZOU7JBXXi/tToarXO4z5n8YGFjmwJtDTVv XL36xEVEVnk/uJh3CeUo8lP4kwtXiJZUHwFnPs7i4VwDMCXcYlLciYcHDNVrhpNAYd+uWtFZQ+z sAnuULwIr1vG1hRhfw+kO8qc1rDCzfLF7bDO7p1S08BdNCHTKCafBEx8EJPdOLSu6iw=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:e3c9:b0:79c:ff02:a048 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7bcf50d12damr19404747b3.4.1777361246633; Tue, 28 Apr 2026 00:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <16CF0FDA-7263-461A-9F2B-D37DBEAF5DD9@sn3rd.com> <d1e64f4d-13ba-4186-85d5-3dff028b62fb@appelbaum.net> <CAMjbhoXvf0PCXiuN2+-G-MSw6-C4vq3eHmjz+GF4dx2F=x-tfw@mail.gmail.com> <032e327f-57b2-428c-a9ee-99c004358e86@appelbaum.net> <CAMjbhoURLc1qqjoCXdELKQsYC9ijh_EVgBaBqx3nCsccBNFxoA@mail.gmail.com> <a486329e-4ddb-470d-8a73-fb395e3d47e6@appelbaum.net>
In-Reply-To: <a486329e-4ddb-470d-8a73-fb395e3d47e6@appelbaum.net>
From: Bas Westerbaan <bas@cloudflare.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 09:27:15 +0200
X-Gm-Features: AVHnY4KR8MAOsTmmBXOr1LsA9b-C8adANIVQLjeaVm7z1z0fiQOXF_bZn0Auiqo
Message-ID: <CAMjbhoW0idai0+_e24BX9t5sr6prOW9hXRB+YYjWBSuRZUxp3w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jacob Appelbaum <jacob@appelbaum.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bee3940650802966"
Message-ID-Hash: QWDI7ODCQEKPRS7ML5CWV2JG57GXCPJR
X-Message-ID-Hash: QWDI7ODCQEKPRS7ML5CWV2JG57GXCPJR
X-MailFrom: bas@cloudflare.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Hnto3tUH6N4CPkvfq5QETO-Yt6s>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

>
> A corollary is that we're only as secure as the weakest variant that the
> server advertises while maintaining standards compliance.


No, you misunderstand how TLS works.



> The other issued raised in my comment still apply but are otherwise
> unaddressed.


You write long e-mails, Jake. I think I addressed all relevant points to
this WGLC.

Best,

 Bas

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status