Re: [tsvwg] design assumptions - draft-ietf-udp-options

Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Wed, 17 July 2019 19:16 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D781208CE for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:16:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.218
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.218 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WJVIBlv1c-FV for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF19C1208CB for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc: To:From:Date:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=O58OAEnMJ/aF2P2Hg3A7zL3N/nVzpxr1jQEURNk32jg=; b=pwIYSSYfBeKTdpndnW0TpUDMC n2mRS+GDxZYfA1IHTS1xBO6q7KVFT+6Ch/IherJTTUPUUUPEZLfrqFcWiHCLaCan6o17UgMETdea+ nDLyfudhf5znbKt9KQqmMq01DetA23+g8mrw5++ZfR6qEAzG71sKLLwrAwx+tfWQi3pG+2CemRQw6 HKNPu75XBpfUhMBnXjLRfKR/6P7R5iepH9p6yDY/5Z1Gd+bMc9nB8oMPWR5JkEtY1eUShlSeqgi1U pTKvyghj91oyhdMq8GCNXDcJfmw+p9w3CYotNb4Z4dVf7PFBrJpDtF1xdDEw45EyNQDqZUaHV/ALq Z0nFAsOfQ==;
Received: from [::1] (port=42420 helo=server217.web-hosting.com) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1hnpPm-003hPp-EP; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:16:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_2e9a535100ad11c081a7a2d121066ae5"
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:16:34 -0700
From: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: "C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com>, tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <CALx6S37GyRuVtoERrp1bDr3iCj0tZwGFH5CEsBJG3t0seii=3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPDqMeq9GjEQKukH1pZOTdE50e_rc3U6gpdxT-5qrS5phD0RGw@mail.gmail.com> <646D45AD-D79B-4BD2-A084-7DA97CE2C415@strayalpha.com> <7EC37B50-45D5-4CF1-B113-205E55BF244E@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S34s7L7xo+26bt5Cdaqi4Es5Aci42GHk1WNKzugr5st-Gw@mail.gmail.com> <B525BF50-EFCC-44A5-A604-6CDDA914A1CB@strayalpha.com> <CAPDqMep3R6z9PRKkHyOvrh6sV9n5Sc0B++-zVz0FYJCwE6swrQ@mail.gmail.com> <E42A2AE2-F499-465E-BDE6-5EFC0AB20042@strayalpha.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936306138E9@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <CAPDqMeoyNb7vQTdqxLpZpnKb9S7QKeDJNLyQJBmq95yXhB+xfQ@mail.gmail.com> <7D365770-64FE-40BC-901D-B4D7DF6B484B@strayalpha.com> <20190713182554.GB39770@clarinet.employees.org> <CALx6S36mH2M6SYnRSecWXa7k_d1u8O43+CXE-=KqeO0x2e5+qw@mail.gmail.com> <82FF6486-FABF-4D2C-B5E2-178779C720A4@strayalpha.com> <30c17e9c174f6b0da3ecc6b503a8cb17@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VGs7j+y5vFNT3OL9OKX8ue4rv-Cxi467KR-vbhnMdx86g@mail.gmail.com> <2f71a292f924a9b8de4227c4bbc2f809@strayalpha.com> <0ce46e21249f0dc55310b192d382f50a@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S36gaMqNRo_hYKr45T_vTkUB-vRrYRYJz2_KgvejNsJtLQ@mail.gmail.com> <efbf65646a0e0d2535dc5726b34f3472@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S37sZxmGQJq5mxDiF88NeUjj2HMRnQG5KyZA_4ujrLJkqg@mail.gmail.com> <079d7d849d0e6260497a6c0ed37595a2@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S37wOkz0436CmevOjSe=VwAxKstSR9Jc66PUmXwUKK4vBw@mail.gmail.com> <075C3166-DF88-4160-8E6C-1C32511F4D46@strayalpha.com> <811C4C35-48D8-4382-A4B4-784FAC1B9F1D@strayalpha.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D2432779493630620745@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <80BB381B-9B2F-4ACF-9F3A-27E7B8B10AC2@strayalpha.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936306212A0@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <CACL_3VGS8-3susS-qm3oDD3=fwT6QmRa4_hgceJKhqjz3n+H5Q@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S37GyRuVtoERrp1bDr3iCj0tZwGFH5CEsBJG3t0seii=3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deae8d1cb6f4af0086a2b48f11a6886d@strayalpha.com>
X-Sender: touch@strayalpha.com
User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.7
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/y3Xz5tlfAjcIIXrh66zO13t7Q5w>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] design assumptions - draft-ietf-udp-options
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 19:16:41 -0000

On 2019-07-17 12:02, Tom Herbert wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 11:20 AM C. M. Heard <heard@pobox.com> wrote: 
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 10:14 AM Black, David <David.Black@dell.com> wrote: 
> Joe,
> 
> Still as an individual ..
> 
> I would agree with your point on #8 LITE were it not that #8 is the basis for
> the only way we have to accomplish #5 Frag while satisfying #2.

I emphatically disagree that LITE is needed to support FRAG in an
acceptable way.

 +1

The requirement when there are UDP options that can't be ignored, like
FRAG, is that the UDP length is eight and so all the protocol and user
data is in the surplus. The bits in the surplus area can be arranged
as convenient, so then the UDP options can be in a header as opposed
to trailer. Thus the LITE option isn't needed and the awkward moving
around user data to reconstruct the protocol trailer is unneeded. 

There were two reasons for the swaps involved: 

1) to enable support for zero-copy (if we're optimizing for any sort of
processing, it ought to be this sort of endpoint issue) 

2) to allow fragments to have both per-fragment options as well as
options over the reassembled whole; this is important to provide both
CCO (per fragment) and AE (over the whole result). And no, doing
security, integrity checks, etc., on fragments is not the same as doing
it over the reassembled whole. 

Joe