Re: [tsvwg] draft-ietf-udp-options issues from IETF 104

"C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com> Wed, 17 July 2019 16:36 UTC

Return-Path: <heard@pobox.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29FA12040D for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.698
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=pobox.com; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=heard@pobox.com header.d=pobox.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y8090rQMt1OO for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (pb-smtp20.pobox.com [173.228.157.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94B431200F4 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AB06A38F for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:36:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from heard@pobox.com)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; s=sasl; bh=RRtuDJ7jHKYkpj6Dm4m+Am//LOo=; b=W8c2PA UwrStpoNPv/zTk8QtUFXLw8TFwGUNQTAqNpZrovYvhT3YzzePIVKxBvTIFZ8RTpE 1kB1XxxAw8BkNXb/IzstKOazmPU6/j7tqFL4LhYAebKStGywwg8eHoNrF7kGLUAr pokRvZI5U2Oz4hEr+HOVxw2sicG2HV6Pr/q4E=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=mime-version :references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; q=dns; s=sasl; b=gtmvyCIsxsJo+zmWMhJlvbEDKN/lyQCb PrlkEaVm+nmbO6RExgU3wZL7vBgejzgHFJV4YSnwWBMt3S6kwotk9CuZ2qDGyyeN VSzlhLeL3RlH7/n8heWEmZIbeHXRLr3H7L5VIl7LZO/gKlgWAbm2OLRaU+HdV2CZ oCwvVMWr+hk=
Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F0946A38E for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:36:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from heard@pobox.com)
Received: from mail-io1-f51.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DDEF06A38B for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:36:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from heard@pobox.com)
Received: by mail-io1-f51.google.com with SMTP id m24so46795769ioo.2 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV5bseHterZxFukR+8mwFPCBQIAYAsQyqcC8dgULdmUr+J0t4LW c0kKy2OSOnzFEnyD99R4proFe+1kZzAJW3KP9VU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxcBN3xtVlA9zVMfMBzaipJB2Lr0KCy8X4Bel6eASepLGanC+c/HgfDUO13vr7sX/LqHor4SRPqKq1ue4aqQ+k=
X-Received: by 2002:a02:b883:: with SMTP id p3mr44212416jam.79.1563381411726; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAPDqMeq9GjEQKukH1pZOTdE50e_rc3U6gpdxT-5qrS5phD0RGw@mail.gmail.com> <646D45AD-D79B-4BD2-A084-7DA97CE2C415@strayalpha.com> <7EC37B50-45D5-4CF1-B113-205E55BF244E@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S34s7L7xo+26bt5Cdaqi4Es5Aci42GHk1WNKzugr5st-Gw@mail.gmail.com> <B525BF50-EFCC-44A5-A604-6CDDA914A1CB@strayalpha.com> <CAPDqMep3R6z9PRKkHyOvrh6sV9n5Sc0B++-zVz0FYJCwE6swrQ@mail.gmail.com> <E42A2AE2-F499-465E-BDE6-5EFC0AB20042@strayalpha.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936306138E9@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <CAPDqMeoyNb7vQTdqxLpZpnKb9S7QKeDJNLyQJBmq95yXhB+xfQ@mail.gmail.com> <7D365770-64FE-40BC-901D-B4D7DF6B484B@strayalpha.com> <20190713182554.GB39770@clarinet.employees.org> <CALx6S36mH2M6SYnRSecWXa7k_d1u8O43+CXE-=KqeO0x2e5+qw@mail.gmail.com> <82FF6486-FABF-4D2C-B5E2-178779C720A4@strayalpha.com> <30c17e9c174f6b0da3ecc6b503a8cb17@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VGs7j+y5vFNT3OL9OKX8ue4rv-Cxi467KR-vbhnMdx86g@mail.gmail.com> <2f71a292f924a9b8de4227c4bbc2f809@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VGrF5UnbVsSzZZoy1i57WKiQKBX2T3a16UyEVHY=Kr3XA@mail.gmail.com> <0ce46e21249f0dc55310b192d382f50a@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S36gaMqNRo_hYKr45T_vTkUB-vRrYRYJz2_KgvejNsJtLQ@mail.gmail.com> <efbf65646a0e0d2535dc5726b34f3472@strayalpha.com> <CALx6S37sZxmGQJq5mxDiF88NeUjj2HMRnQG5KyZA_4ujrLJkqg@mail.gmail.com> <079d7d849d0e6260497a6c0ed37595a2@strayalpha.com> <CACL_3VEiUeF-_Bmwa8Gt4pXpHV2BtE0jS9tSMWbJTq0bGCBOwQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S35ukQTe4rH-9YCsvxN8UpQ88ib67r5zsY1X98JXsghPmw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALx6S35ukQTe4rH-9YCsvxN8UpQ88ib67r5zsY1X98JXsghPmw@mail.gmail.com>
From: "C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:36:39 -0700
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CACL_3VEFTo5dbFnY+QRECK01DZahW0-9B4fNK1cX68zNRsNJwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL_3VEFTo5dbFnY+QRECK01DZahW0-9B4fNK1cX68zNRsNJwQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b1c9c4058de3197a"
X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 15295FC2-A8B1-11E9-A6D0-B0405B776F7B-06080547!pb-smtp20.pobox.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/xio-VFgVxQ96UlOFpNV0iXBdokc>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] draft-ietf-udp-options issues from IETF 104
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:36:58 -0000

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:21 AM Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM C. M. Heard <heard@pobox.com> wrote:
> > It may be reasonable to set some lower bounds on what a conforming
> > implementation is obliged to accept -- something along the lines of
> > the requirement in RFC 792 that "[a]ll hosts must be prepared to
> > accept datagrams of up to 576 octets (whether they arrive whole or
> > in fragments)." But that does not need to be -- and in general should
> > not be -- baked into the protocol structure. Capabilities change, and
> > increased limits can find their way over time into new implementations,
> > but not if the protocol structure imposes an artificial ceiling.
> >
>
> Mike,
>
> See Section 5.3 of RFC8504. This text should be adaptable to any
> stateless protocol containing TLVs.

Yes, something along those lies was what I had in mind.

> Side note: UDP options should define both PAD1 and PADN to be
> consistent with HBH, Dest, and SR options. Preferably PAD1 would have
> type 0 and PADN would have type 1 which would facilitate reuse of the
> existing parsing loop.

If 8-byte alignment is desired, then PADN saves work. It's not as useful
if 4-byte alignment is all that's wanted; doubtless that's why it was
left out of the IPv4 and TCP option design. I would have no problem with
adopting the more modern IPv6 conventions.

Mike