Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption considered of dubious value
"Christian Huitema" <huitema@huitema.net> Sun, 23 March 2014 06:08 UTC
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From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
To: 'Watson Ladd' <watsonbladd@gmail.com>, 'Trevor Perrin' <trevp@trevp.net>
References: <53249D4E.2080104@network-heretics.com> <5324ECFC.2050004@akr.io> <53256D07.7020005@network-heretics.com> <5325AEB2.9070804@mnt.se> <5325B3E7.3060508@network-heretics.com> <5326271D.40107@eff.org> <532660F5.908@cs.tcd.ie> <CAGZ8ZG0LDrHNo2W-Ho2OssPTYNjoaiRCZ3u4rcvWXhj=vG+3cQ@mail.gmail.com> <532D9B4B.8040106@cs.tcd.ie> <CAGZ8ZG1MKuXbM+AuUt4y0jRVEw4a2o7Mcf_11J=FFR3aOPt1ow@mail.gmail.com> <CACsn0c=DzmuLBX1X5RwKRxv_r4ihPj2M5vgxUKabSf_gyMYOuQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 23:08:07 -0700
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Cc: uta@ietf.org, 'Stephen Farrell' <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption considered of dubious value
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> Personally I have never understood why connecting to a site with a bad > certificate shows me a warning, while visiting a site over HTTP does > not. That's probably the hardest part of the "opportunistic encryption" effort. The user interface that you describe was developed in accordance to the principles of PKI, for which the norm is a valid certificate signed by an approved authority. We know that these principles lead to severe deployment issues. There is of course the financial cost of paying for the certificate, but that's probably not the biggest problem. There is a cost in installing a certificate on a web server. Having an expiration date in the certificate forces periodic administrative action that are cumbersome for small sites, and have occasionally tripped large sites. If a site wants to switch to a longer key, they need a new certificate, yet another cumbersome process. And then there is the whole issue of authorities being able to spoof certificate. We know all that, but at the same time we do not have yet a good alternative. How does a client distinguish between a legitimate self-signed certificate and a clumsy man-in-the-middle attack? If a client sees an expired certificate, how does it distinguish between a lazy administrator and an attacker reusing an expired and possibly compromised certificate? If we can answer these questions, and agree on better user interface guidelines, then we can possibly reduce the friction associated with the deployment of TLS in small sites. -- Christian Huitema
- [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption considere… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Yan Zhu
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Alan Johnston
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Yan Zhu
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Michael Richardson
- [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue (was… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue … Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Keith Moore
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Orit Levin (LCA)
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Rick Andrews
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Trevor Perrin
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Trevor Perrin
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… t.p.
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… Adam Langley
- Re: [Uta] opportunistic keying / encryption consi… t.p.
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Uta] getting back to UTA and injecting clue Leif Johansson