Re: [Add] [EXTERNAL] Re: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns-01.txt

Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> Tue, 23 March 2021 14:14 UTC

Return-Path: <bemasc@google.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB7A3A0E67 for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-hw7KtA_KnZ for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com (mail-wr1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77C053A0E66 for <add@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id v11so20921632wro.7 for <add@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=poe9NcC6Fb/NMJLAArBA49mJ4sd4f0cmAogDjEcdHC0=; b=OZ3jX1QvhnGaqM/TQ5u7GIYdwfuUkTbqqyy0vDs/VkEhxmsmMjp3d58YSoeL+hkAUS +Z1f6F2NIWIwaS1J0q/08vlSuUlP21u/muFSdzjNWTkMjuWSwCKGlowXiumK9fR7mIVA ODQchSe59VwGtMQFJAiMFgt25gXjfA1F5lHofoKilmo51YtBUY4syuwbvT4/kYRg3Jkl td73qzT2guzwMrxrhJ1JafLcJb0oX9Vbx3hZxGI2Mx612gKf5qHm/7x2ApMazOnQUAoc 4CypQLn/56bzKI08U6frw7NGB/vsb4FmoCCrUNNuo+bNAkNm2ji+6yKu6G2BKyV63XZ/ awhA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=poe9NcC6Fb/NMJLAArBA49mJ4sd4f0cmAogDjEcdHC0=; b=XSlZrKdVlujFXxMrk+Yo0NzL+DIgAWxXOlgPvk1TRaM/wBc6saDyBUC6TAOcGSsZA5 4MtPm5BmlQRlxPeKqcNQm02VSG9bfNLYAPpvfhiI5yStGPm8OZMdgfC5otF4Xs0yap7E W/t55fjgxxqC0XrTrw2cIg9dFgu/rhPGmi9aYNtnkJhG+K+klNsiKSu7BO0OyyhkXWnY UmZp7/fExuzEmw7m/YWVoE8ShuxxyUGr1TmLN/7ntAT9QGuUQM5ko2GXFjvb2jtFfC/+ W1zF0DOewlJ3NQn34SG0HomeUQauAXkLHDDzCa3KzNro2zpw/YtoVWpeVE5Ip72efadc u30Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530n8ty9Oe0wYBsJd52bU4cNkCnkQpwxEmPAGNEPFOwXeXARzzJm kpaxdtWWQMVUmaFZVU5+zSzP7mavG81H0u5Dlxq42SXWq3c=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwPVHGGY2ON+tc3MJUBSAD7hBrwA5V0dH1UEhnFe4I5rBjY/EUv/qTIraFCaLnCEvu9OvLv/zu5bmqEqeyChqI=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:42d2:: with SMTP id t18mr4261722wrr.258.1616508858836; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <1c618bd9-e039-2dac-80f3-1f11b7b44bc4@cs.tcd.ie> <9486D9AE-047B-4046-AB8A-74E8AB0D83B5@nohats.ca> <20210315021312.ng5xgq23kkohvsgb@family.redbarn.org> <1191373191.33078.1615799543805@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <CAHbrMsDuks_CekecsONR2USBk+TCyDy3xzdndbak2p8gsJnReQ@mail.gmail.com> <cb2fdd3c-1454-7daa-4fb8-b7b78a79ec39@redbarn.org> <CAHbrMsC7jaW8RWoO8szejOgVzOu0OcOd05RyBYw8HPpFw+Lxbg@mail.gmail.com> <34ceda03-356b-8559-d427-e522912041f2@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <34ceda03-356b-8559-d427-e522912041f2@cs.tcd.ie>
From: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:14:07 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHbrMsCkCLiLfFh10au0DfinHpmWJaRJLerE-xs1vG0qeU=W=w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>, ADD Mailing list <add@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="00000000000054c14105be34ccef"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/rCtZ70ti1Gop6hA3am5-jmqP0P4>
Subject: Re: [Add] [EXTERNAL] Re: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns-01.txt
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:14:26 -0000

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 10:59 PM Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
wrote:

>
> Hiya,
>
> On 23/03/2021 02:31, Ben Schwartz wrote:
> > I suppose this is in reference to
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/LAChEeAQa9_0zDEbPWhshYgEuGo/
> > I think I meant something quite similar to what I said earlier in this
> > thread: policy is a conversation between people, not machines, so the
> > logical place for it is in something more or less like a captive portal
> > ToS, where the user may contemplate all of the network's policies
> together.
>
> Really? That doesn't seem defensible to me fwiw.
>
> Do you have an example of such a ToS description that is
> really a conversation between people? I can't think of one.
>

I certainly don't mean to claim that clickwrap licenses are the ideal way
for these people to interact.  I just don't think we're likely to make them
better by encoding bits of them in JSON.

I also think this topic is out of scope, and unlikely to be productive.