Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https-05.txt

Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> Tue, 11 May 2021 16:32 UTC

Return-Path: <bemasc@google.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA0F3A1D9D for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7BICxDBQQsi6 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30E793A1D8D for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id b19-20020a05600c06d3b029014258a636e8so1583358wmn.2 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EX95D4RHzWStKBKqlDFEdK2ImyLAmgyCcvjo9EaO720=; b=M3XHkLO3+4yRE9OC46yTXSQ9FJ2oAL7YQC3BT4r2xmFbgxwg/CG9ClRbbFO2A/UN0u z/rMzZMvgId6LlJG9uqhkzEaiP01KmRzBVeeQQYRENqeIrnh1SOMalhahWMb63VtNehQ /cEcZ81RpStatQ4dIUMWa2jMESxWNrgtFZoeLXp0z5XPW5hgRM4tvRSg8T5NKV28ESiK q16fCOhnuWTIhC0LM85lenzmbzuSJl17qjR+htGPKioJKebp8TA8wt4UDaAOiVIpSD/R yQWkSjmyeTLLq3+c3PNnXrNfqRupjI37R+RD2VfsWU6pggH+KDfU8UF62e3uwbk9pgob B52A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EX95D4RHzWStKBKqlDFEdK2ImyLAmgyCcvjo9EaO720=; b=QaczKhLOcjgcJGRh3EjzG4zIZmT2rZS+EApjE+/lQ2XukPMoRSv3TOZAzKpshzRSPI pMpXKkzRHudFXHAl8KfY/EuZLXbrCUnXI5rlHB6yFd11hrIVENJD8yoNF7/xQ4ljw5JT n8j5/CGrB3SCBPBT60dPv9vam/W2SgzaBrewmKv0iYNDf6BS0biBEf7KnM9XC6mkesmJ FYFolj3FaYhr8V0APdsx6CoWJ1FhyfTJkHnuGKECAQVwvoQfKiuevz4atB64JufUle6h Uv05E3quvirh/mmUE0y18tYb86/jgo4pQxMHI1D8NUkaEe11Z2FaoWHwiJ1zyU1jquSM Zvfg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530/WEjgSqrvOHOAtxvfHzW6Vu3GB7FWJXDHAUgUQaigzvwu9Tiy qZB6JhPULmVKlW9luBxsNgEkx7huXXQHo5CY1M3nDg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyslsuHdkeBSfP8JrIK0KetKehs4ofqBxCgQ42Wy7p6IYImK5/dE8B1TvwrR8bI1dHnmPW4FDeZBA9Bs/wrA3s=
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:a9ca:: with SMTP id s193mr3366076wme.132.1620750752815; Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:32 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <F4CE48A1-7AB0-45D0-97FF-158CE3A04EE1@icann.org> <3EE971EE-0777-44D6-9CD2-771B92FFE938@hopcount.ca> <1d822219-8ab9-2cb7-d0a4-9b8afc39058d@powerdns.com> <2952D408-117B-40D0-B859-7A8E4111629E@hopcount.ca> <CAHbrMsD+uiaYQ8i58VRjF=3AtW9uAoAtgbKzNzrPZC3QCmD2pQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH1iCirykCpqkQEizYUBYMJEXMYRGkWvnzyo-jP=XOT-4fP-EA@mail.gmail.com> <123fd984-a3e1-0d09-b745-9a7ed6260759@nic.cz> <CAHbrMsCrf8GS3N=HF53X-M0oq09yw_vKGFLU_qA6wt94-+vNXg@mail.gmail.com> <07FE2C2B-10C4-47B0-BFF7-AD8E980A2E26@hopcount.ca>
In-Reply-To: <07FE2C2B-10C4-47B0-BFF7-AD8E980A2E26@hopcount.ca>
From: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 09:32:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHbrMsB6qGs2QsvYMC9j2ahWAR80gdcsDbgihQiXYXG03OY9qQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
Cc: "libor.peltan" <libor.peltan@nic.cz>, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="000000000000eafb4405c210709c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/0QcPwFOKKZhYvfyaN_hcAUrJYac>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https-05.txt
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 16:32:40 -0000

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 9:20 AM Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> On 11 May 2021, at 12:08, Ben Schwartz <bemasc=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> wrote:
>
..

> * It saves at least 11 bytes of overhead per parameter by avoiding
> repetition of
>   the name, type, class, TTL, and inter-pair binding ID.
>
>
> ... but it inflates response volume in the case where a separate SvcParams
> RRSet is able to be cached significantly longer than the SVCB RRSet.
>

It sounds like you're proposing a design in which the information in one
SVCB record is not just spread across multiple records in an RRSet, but
actually across multiple RRSets.  That is not just a variation on SVCB, but
an entirely different proposal.

> * It provides a wire format whose structural nesting matches the logical
> scope
>   of each key=value pair, and avoids requiring cross-RR reconstruction of
>   bindings by the client.
>
>
> This seems like it is documenting a design choice rather than explaining
> it. The decision to include a list of key-value pairs in the SVCB RDATA is
> good because it avoids having to do something different?
>

To restate this sentence, it is good because the concrete syntactical
structure matches the abstract conceptual structure, and (relatedly)
because it simplifies client implementation.