Re: [DNSOP] Proposal: Whois over DNS

Bjarni Rúnar Einarsson <bre@isnic.is> Tue, 09 July 2019 17:50 UTC

Return-Path: <bre@isnic.is>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3080412086C for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pbjNbnetRqJc for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lugh.isnic.is (lugh.isnic.is [IPv6:2001:67c:6c:58::86]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E89012086A for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 10:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by lugh.isnic.is (Postfix, from userid 2516) id 74979ABC74; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:50:44 +0000 (GMT)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==5qH6MC4gID6mXSVnHMsAN5uKfN4VrS=="
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Bjarni Rúnar Einarsson <bre@isnic.is>
To: John Bambenek <jcb=40bambenekconsulting.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: dnsop@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <23e86618-610f-8b49-a3bc-4417ebc28efd@bambenekconsulting.com>
References: <23e86618-610f-8b49-a3bc-4417ebc28efd@bambenekconsulting.com>
User-Agent: Mailpile
Message-Id: <YDgWic8mGpxJeIMdsWLQJ8o4cTsEx4k7MecSj2522353@mailpile>
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 17:49:22 -0000
Autocrypt: addr=bre@isnic.is; keydata=xsDNBFyh/HMBDADeTUDSeFjLIlG/S4OkGDwsdHgc cAjnWun+MhVHlm/AK5nQ+Nr+dMgPoDKgtTz9TZgmewpvEWnGIdBhsBSFMAncFaGxWBjvNRjcy3QZZ ndwfKRBUsbbkhQbQ8qIxKYZxw8cY4JGPIUiqNZjIYORKuchN0MXqsUjkmsSrMQEw3n8Nsi+aQT/w/ lnKJO9cCPTaCThTN0odwva2QWe8WWLQ3Fr5UBuhb/LzbMVZn61ASjehnTt2YKYXsiRcLRs/XfqaqU vIwM3WqFKH9IZl49V+wQBHu4kljLchLw2DPLpf+mv2VoZMaks2DmTJDTlKkXp3X9YXvGUBcHGyF7S 4KqsKTZnplVxNE89X4Fg1FjGdHHAsXVBpOibKGpPqc91hsj5SbcipfXfIBl0FzLlGZvWUTtQsq46k fa4k06oSpcr89g5zVnLOHL0ftpSX6ScIVgKsV1uEYgWhjWjATBuUdKXG93rSluZDVIrf34Jb/EsTf bT8ff0SipaiYizRTLXZ4KiDZ8AEQEAAc0mQmphcm5pIFLDum5hciBFaW5hcnNzb24gPGJyZUBpc25 pYy5pcz7CwQ4EEwEKADgWIQQs8AwZMbeQyjfTmy5ZC1sMA8ImhQUCXKH8cwIbAwULCQgHAgYVCgkI CwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBZC1sMA8ImhZYHC/9cd4KB4EwhvFm3sNwv2iTUouDGQCsDeK0WMvozS ZwR/vG0s8katBlCL1XOmKGDGADS3FcmmjlguvOT572WXLZvx2Tn0U9g5N69htB0VeUJjaGpVNzUwf I+W6M6NDYQolQ2y4Ndm7HCjwDPStelZyE2cXMVBsxZYl3UMoUfScI6BNneA+EiUxit/PU+LbFc59a oTEVOtBcID/3RmFHDL7WyZjEvZh2UVzu+dIsJuINd+G+GPnvS1UfHsMsEQhk84VCCG4VYkbwN81Wa zoL7mWCNjjJnqh9ERjVwYyUhRVw+9VcimUrsZf6s1GlEtEI2kquSsTH1BZ5v0POYVJ/mHK/kCDCAP 6B2I78ExppGi1mL52YwuwovO//OVkCiVBciCA/NKtk3mGnhMWoB4vDmaFY2H+gOeV/sSxGnsuUicR zcPlUjwtUx1+T6/b/ib0px2JXzOYBV2gCNzUDC7iQ3Ahsf7V1Yi4nCDN9gJsCDEj/JItWIAz2rUKB dQiMKSpF6LOjOwM0EXKH8cwEMAMmjYLjn/M7kxb0Uasyeg6jv7KDS92jdkh3fjV2TsgL1gTRqQrNH gejBP19Wwg6oc7cRmmoDfQ6mtNyXvNfd+5cF5MdR62q01TGb4ciatUbpoMA8IfyqeopuafMwteoE+ M8oO5OfHc0PeXORr059KK9P8vLcnit8GM6y/DkTZPnZOwDnM4SoPFSZZXcBogsHPjbklIzGoqwjMA ehmo2riJOrgL1XR3U83cOY45mLsw68mCGiYTtFG+gNW0wq4Hkj8kizMJ3nlEuIkhQ+wVQ+BIU+xQo bNhoorY3oK7aeJf2dmpF49nNUFSORYrcSzADP9a9Fj9fThfK0yJ7RgLQeCAZgxuYyDHeF6v03UVyo WIx1KMm3K/PHhHhxr4f1oZl+Y35czg9I8UkyCuoSa4Vrb8neBTJaOq+7ZQqSk0xBKf+NIHEBlb4zt Niru+WQv0PkJypUDQZvKhB5frnId5brpUUPfGOX/EL7w2LVlHQVEkPeUCyewIKBcCCW0wdtSrrzew ARAQABwsD2BBgBCgAgFiEELPAMGTG3kMo305suWQtbDAPCJoUFAlyh/HMCGwwACgkQWQtbDAPCJoU 0cQwAy+0RUc+JERn2V7bP/04aH+mmcpRtQQxrRRxTdzYSA6laCMhmzBZkCJA38ESuD3cCLu9zGJkR j1iu/FO4PejB0G0+1EMv9BNWqyOcehQH2ZjNPSQX2kCdBuGdqXuJIapV0EpIUi735h8u5igTUbagO tGZ4fifo4B2tOVtfoC82EA9jsdyUELGy/irLQG0DVqqD5yV+OmWVNd3kErJYjVBd0EWtSeqedLVSF hL5xT3xNo7UbzvqeS6X1c6hF7CyH6mgzYN0N3+r5ZikN9tWXamVW7FImnDl58ydUm9um0T6IIP7Ah +KkMEHwZX3Ndfyy+DAXfB5Irs013wL8nLCprTFylHPrQP0F7yOsOt9v1aVgoHC3Z7Kg+ejGYHkq4A NixzuzrMNjqZHxkwC6MYH2vvrKsB3rLII7vee1eskSXMupx+8FZuZ04IPfTC8qaAoDNUqUqn1ZwT+ uSA0ner6+/oJP9ImxEcJdP40hmHjc6EsnkwG6fuLmeQodh2twspeFQr
OpenPGP: id=2CF00C1931B790CA37D39B2E590B5B0C03C22685; preference=sign
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/_5byGnDbPPsskhFo2ROxPiltLuE>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Proposal: Whois over DNS
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 17:50:55 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

John Bambenek <jcb=40bambenekconsulting.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
wrote:
> 
> But is the risk to self-identification as present when
> role-based accounts could be used as opposed to PII? I guess
> I'm not understanding the risks of people accidentally
> disclosing what they don't intend to.

The risk is this: until people have been burned by over-sharing
sensitive information, most are very ill informed about the fact
that sharing is risky at all.

People literally won't understand that listing their name and
phone number, to assert ownership of a domain, ALSO exposes that
data to any creative criminal who knows how to wield dig as part
of preparing their spear-phishing campaign (as a random example).
Or expose their current address to a vindictive ex.

Most people won't understand this until it's too late, until
they've been burned.

Many domain owners are barely technically literate, DNS is not
just used by medium and large organizations with dedicated IT
staff. Many domain owners do not have an "organizational role" to
list, even if that were the encouraged default option.

Understanding how your data puts you at risk requires both
thinking in an adversarial way, and requires understanding how
the technology works. Very few people have that combination of
skills, even within tech.

As a result, the only reasonable assumption is that any system
which encourages the collection (let alone the publication) of
personal data must be considered risky, even dangerous. We have
too many such systems as it is, we need to think very carefully
and need strong justification for creating more of them.

Another way to put it: if a system requires you think and
exercise care to stay safe, that means the system itself is by
default unsafe. Building unsafe systems is not good engineering
practice.

Cheers,
 - Bjarni

- -- 
Sent using Mailpile, Free Software from www.mailpile.is

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEELPAMGTG3kMo305suWQtbDAPCJoUFAl0k06YACgkQWQtbDAPC
JoWFfAv+PeMuOT6XRtKxN/avTM/W8rzO6Xbb6WEiqLl7a9easTVATtzxqv0g8eY1
l4VW5oiHaZ/EUlo80KQfYsl4R7XnjfH2KW9kmEGHFUZGKe8cW+WUOtlqQDvG21b0
lzCn3r8F7dyq1/2dB8oYFORKiFgvyZ/gdHooi/icQXC1Bmdq/RBPBfBKkfkieJVV
pYqiKekHAFy737t5t5J7xu8N5cZVc4Wzfrc8aP/nofguKhGzXp/npV+vcQvGGCQw
gCH8ERQ6dZtCMXHtmCT5gQJg+KAHYCWn/Njhbc+9A6xaByho0QmESkeCWi1vdn+v
nLh4C1pS7+rRULT0Sl1unj8X8UBzLPFApbT7f27zXD2kF6VljIsLSVHBxzAb30Oq
FS0zZTwQLhhI4BckB9uYw/YqHVMDdDRPF1tSLINCEsxBuPIvlb47a1zfUwMFUPdf
+VM9i1w7zSFmkJg3RzDxxtzbpqmzKzuCWdytuWkQm6zMWlHO4jbkpBvv4yWskTQ7
aaT5Kux9
=4QSR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----