IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Emailcore] Return-Path and Delivered-To issues

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Tue, 05 January 2021 21:59 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E084B3A0925 for <emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 13:59:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.38
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.38 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j_R5FyHTFhMz for <emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 13:59:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from aye.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (aye.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 035003A0907 for <emailcore@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 13:59:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580627E18EC; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:59:26 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from nl-srv-smtpout1.hostinger.io (100-96-5-6.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.5.6]) (Authenticated sender: hostingeremail) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ABEC57E35D3; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:59:24 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
Received: from nl-srv-smtpout1.hostinger.io ([UNAVAILABLE]. [185.224.136.7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.11); Tue, 05 Jan 2021 21:59:26 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: hostingeremail
X-Whimsical-Tasty: 0b91d36e31e69416_1609883965874_1654382445
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1609883965874:979881842
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1609883965874
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (c-24-130-62-181.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.130.62.181]) (Authenticated sender: dhc@dcrocker.net) by nl-srv-smtpout1.hostinger.io (smtp.hostinger.com) with ESMTPSA id 5E9582B78AB8; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:59:20 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=hostingermail-a; t=1609883963; bh=lPTcnKgOgDmOIHjGs5XmAG+QkBdVycQ7/4CoS3iz/fM=; h=Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=geZU8kZ2qcbRl9dm9xmV8WT5Hwft+F+idMnqGEbrx8HfirJlhP1k+uhoQOm6iGk+Z PTvNKIRn8WLpQHuPcA8PctEfvLfewPcnsCptL9Wzb8KCvnODFEqQ9e1PnqwXskRH3B NRp/waB7PZ4XLT7pYQ04vZQnGcYHNFu9KDMc6TNyNB7ijiK7Llof476JhJ0kp6HQje jdralLoeKniUmrN7Tep/sDArYhJR4K83R6fkpJEwVAt368LJJhe5NvGJhr8MzSYfUd unHFZSCeZz12L4OClsABW1IVG3xpHgHVxfiME3+UK8GWquQND8Z18cqzdp/DXpPU9z VHG0Mu1CkXBow==
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, emailcore@ietf.org
References: <20210105205621.798525829FC6@ary.qy> <e6c0047a-8ad5-8633-e558-d1d4ae2912d2@dcrocker.net> <2fc78e84-ba85-7fdd-e2f3-8fbb50cdf4f0@taugh.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Message-ID: <d6c159b9-ad7b-7f37-f7dd-7ba7ae668fce@dcrocker.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:59:18 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <2fc78e84-ba85-7fdd-e2f3-8fbb50cdf4f0@taugh.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emailcore/H-XufiMPnM50OiInQTXRpuo8gOI>
Subject: Re: [Emailcore] Return-Path and Delivered-To issues
X-BeenThere: emailcore@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: EMAILCORE proposed working group list <emailcore.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/emailcore>, <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/emailcore/>
List-Post: <mailto:emailcore@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emailcore>, <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 21:59:30 -0000

On 1/5/2021 1:53 PM, John R Levine wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2021, Dave Crocker wrote:
>> On 1/5/2021 12:56 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>> Having written a lot of code that does this, I can say that it is
>>> often, maybe mostly, the MTA that drops the message into the mailbox.
>>
>> If it 'drops the messag into the mailbox' then i is acting in the role 
>> of an MDA.  By definition.
> 
> Indeed, but ...
> 
>>> Unless someone believes that the current text is confusing people or
>>> causing interoperability problems, please leave it alone. We already
>>> have plenty to do.


Your latter point is quite separate from the former.

The former should at least moderate how we talk about these issues. 
Hence my response about saying it is an MTA function.  It isn't.

Your latter point goes the question of whether to make changes, now, to 
the specification.  This is a highly constrained effort.  Your "Unless" 
is apt, of course.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email