Re: [Emailcore] Delivered-To issues

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Sat, 02 January 2021 22:15 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F463A0E93 for <emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:15:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SUpiAKcXRf2x for <emailcore@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:15:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9F343A0E92 for <emailcore@ietf.org>; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:15:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38B7541087; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:15:31 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from nl-srv-smtpout2.hostinger.io (100-98-64-116.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.98.64.116]) (Authenticated sender: hostingeremail) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BCBC45410BF; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:15:30 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
Received: from nl-srv-smtpout2.hostinger.io ([UNAVAILABLE]. [145.14.159.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.11); Sat, 02 Jan 2021 22:15:31 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: hostingeremail
X-Sponge-Bubble: 3a0aa36e739b01ca_1609625731450_3125700256
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1609625731449:685358359
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1609625731449
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (c-24-130-62-181.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.130.62.181]) (Authenticated sender: dhc@dcrocker.net) by nl-srv-smtpout2.hostinger.io (smtp.hostinger.com) with ESMTPSA id 8F8FF32220A8; Sat, 2 Jan 2021 22:15:27 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=hostingermail-a; t=1609625729; bh=Bfn9KMje96m+XHzXQ9Q85V+gri5p/RY2BcfT3m7JR50=; h=Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=QStbsXm7An5h4AfvNH6hqYOwj9nymphley32Be/n+6HNhnAu3gvMdsC+WrjZYcIZF HfmqJ5IFk7bYPxKPm+USmJDM2cGYQkspep117HeuOxlXQPrJ02dWYqsA924YgiXfKr W5p0HWatAXfkBSLA4NqfR2N6NgO9l/xgbNnYlRQoW0ttPm6UqJMb7ZDc5+2UtAEthh fsJBXCEj/oNyhca8FLH4As5UfyL5LbhetSKwlw7ZEGtDyn2KLSeXun18mZFCxafI1b Ku3ldWQbVDDIPFt3yUmdPy/YZtRt41v+DZLVjmPB8pXIcb3jA7qnXXpfIbSE9LZI5z jN98NsdTM3OWg==
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
To: Jeremy Harris <jgh@wizmail.org>, emailcore@ietf.org
References: <4bc00e40-8a18-0c8c-bf1e-672e91da2330@dcrocker.net> <def122c9-1eec-8828-6c17-1adb8d4c5ed9@dcrocker.net> <0ea03115-8730-1759-58ec-a4fbcd8508e6@dcrocker.net> <acd7b050-068b-3797-ade7-ac7eb4c930c9@wizmail.org>
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Message-ID: <01cc225f-ca8b-4462-7292-5f3a9af0b925@dcrocker.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2021 14:15:26 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <acd7b050-068b-3797-ade7-ac7eb4c930c9@wizmail.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emailcore/NgZjjKWyZDNuatLdGtbjFuB8vQk>
Subject: Re: [Emailcore] Delivered-To issues
X-BeenThere: emailcore@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: EMAILCORE proposed working group list <emailcore.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/emailcore>, <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/emailcore/>
List-Post: <mailto:emailcore@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emailcore>, <mailto:emailcore-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2021 22:15:35 -0000

On 1/2/2021 6:37 AM, Jeremy Harris wrote:
> On 02/01/2021 13:48, Dave Crocker wrote:
>> Any site performing the delivery transition of responsibility, from 
>> the MHS to the addressee's control, slaps a Deliver-To: header field, 
>> with that one address on it.
> 
>> delivery ... takes place /within/ the MDA
> 
> I think this implies that the address is site-meaningful and not
> necessarily externally-meaningful nor qualified.  For example,
> a message received with an envlope RCPT of "root@site.example.com"
> is locally aliased to "fred", has "Deliver-To: fred" prepended
> and then added to fred's mailbox.


It's possible that one or another address -- notably the last one -- 
might only be site-meaningful, I suppose.

I'd be inclined to have the spec mitigate against that, though, by 
requiring it list the address in a way that is globally useful.  That 
is, after all, what the right-hand-side domain name is for.

(Note that the left-hand side is only ever site-meaningful, for Internet 
mail.  There is never a global interpretation of the LHS.)

Also note that 'delivery' is a transition out of the handling system. 
Just prior to that moment, the address being used is a classic Internet 
mail address, which is globally meaningful.  And it is to that address 
that the mail is being delivered.

Discussions have tended to imply or assert that delivery occurs at 
various other places or that things that occurr afterwards are, 
nonetheless, inside the MHS.

If a message reaches the RCPT TO address, anything that happens 
afterwards, such as being sent on to a new address, happens after 
delivery and involves a new submission.

d/
-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net