Re: [I18ndir] [art] Just uploaded draft-bray-unichars-03

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Sun, 10 September 2023 16:39 UTC

Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: i18ndir@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: i18ndir@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736B6C14CF1A; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 09:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BEMuVDzMEEEm; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 09:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79E58C151076; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [91.223.100.32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RkFsc60TFzDCcN; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 18:38:44 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-D07DBD8B-BD4E-42CA-98A2-74F6FD1FBB75"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <ME3PR01MB59730B45D9339180AF00E941E5F3A@ME3PR01MB5973.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 18:38:32 +0200
Cc: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, i18ndir@ietf.org, ART Area <art@ietf.org>
Message-Id: <E28D64B2-7891-45C4-88AE-CC038BB14595@tzi.org>
References: <ME3PR01MB59730B45D9339180AF00E941E5F3A@ME3PR01MB5973.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
To: "Manger, James" <James.H.Manger=40team.telstra.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (20G81)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i18ndir/fpGNvhPLAqZPfgloJXB1pYMqf5Y>
Subject: Re: [I18ndir] [art] Just uploaded draft-bray-unichars-03
X-BeenThere: i18ndir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internationalization Directorate <i18ndir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/i18ndir>, <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/i18ndir/>
List-Post: <mailto:i18ndir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18ndir>, <mailto:i18ndir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 16:39:03 -0000

Thanks, James. 
I would have written a similar review, if I would have thought that the document is salvageable. 

The document not only needs reviews from people familiar with the subject matter. 

It actually needs to be useful. 

Assuming that the target audience is IETF protocol designers who want to adopt (or specify in more detail their use of) Unicode in their protocols, it is not sufficient to read the standards out loud to them. 

We need to make forward looking recommendations. 
This requires some design taste, if only in forging terminology that we can use going forward.
If the intent is not to set up a BCP, the net effect of the document will be modulated by how useful it is in shaping discussions that IETF WGs need to have. 

Sent from mobile, sorry for terse