Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> Tue, 27 January 2015 01:19 UTC
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 02:19:07 +0100
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From: Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
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Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
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Thanks for this Jari, it's helpful summary Regards sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 27 Jan 2015 01:27, "Jari Arkko" <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote: > I’d like to suggest a constructive way forward. > > First, I think we should observe that the ICG process put the planning and > proposal efforts on purpose into the community processes. Those are the > processes that we run. They are probably not perfect, they are certainly > not the only possible ones, but they are processes that have existed and > evolved for decades. The IANA transition is not an opportunity to redefine > these processes. > > Second, the community has had a very clear opinion about matters, and > re-opening discussions is not good practice. As usual, there are some issue > where agreement was not universal. Disagreement with otherwise broad > consensus is not grounds for re-opening a discussion. > > Third, I want everyone to focus on the concept that we’ve completed a step > but that is not the last one. Among other things, the transition might > involve some contract-termination/negotiation/renegotiation. And even if it > would be very convenient, even IETF consensus doesn’t allow us to sign > stuff in the name of other organisations :-) Or resolve conflicts between > the three community proposals. So I would suggest that we stick to our > clear direction from the WG, sit back, and see what these additional steps > will bring. We will see updates as ICG, IAOC, and others have something to > say, and any changes of direction will obviously need community feedback. > > Fourth, I wanted to go a bit back to the original e-mail that started this > thread (finally!). As noted above, I think it would be inappropriate to > start redefining the IETF process, and I think we’ve provided far more > explanation about where we are and why than we’ve done in the approval > process of most other IETF documents. One of the features of the IETF > process is the expectation that most participants usually track the > development of the community opinion, and conclusions are usually > understood even before they are formally made. And when those conclusions > get made, they can be brief, as the full discussion is visible on the > mailing list archive. > > Yet, I have been talking to Milton and he has a point about communities > understanding their own process well, but it being more difficult for > newcomers, and in particular, complete outsiders that view the events > later. I’d like to suggest that we produce an informal explanation of the > process that helps provide visibility to people at large about what > happened in the development of the IETF proposal from IANAPLAN WG. This is > not a rerun of the process, an official document, or an opportunity to > re-open discussions, but I think it would help us in the coming months as > more people will be asking about our proposals. I’ll work with the chairs > to produce that. > > Jari > > > _______________________________________________ > Ianaplan mailing list > Ianaplan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan > >
- [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF pro… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John C Klensin
- [Ianaplan] You told us not to trust you anymore [… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Russ Housley
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… JFC Morfin