Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery
Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Thu, 12 July 2018 09:58 UTC
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References: <013701d41227$579d2d10$06d78730$@ndzh.com> <E0D48054-CE8E-44AE-AD22-D95F56CAF603@gmail.com> <7220CFF5-1AF7-4644-B078-E545BDF2E346@icloud.com> <242ed290-d6e9-41f9-931d-955e81f62f0d.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> <CA+b+ERn72WsAJj2Em4qZzDSiEcGbh1mhGO+CM0aD_JXPcOX6NQ@mail.gmail.com> <89530067-fe75-4301-ad0e-35f3891cbfaa.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> <CA+b+ERn32brH+yqM5XQsu_uiW+Jp_kMeim86j_EDHbFhJogQVA@mail.gmail.com> <28ef469c-19d6-43b8-a881-d697e7a8569c.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:58:47 +0200
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To: "徐小虎(义先)" <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>
Cc: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>, Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, lsvr-chairs <lsvr-chairs@ietf.org>, draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery <draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery@ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:32 AM, 徐小虎(义先) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> wrote: > What's LSVR in your mind? isn't it built on the existing BGP code base? > No. Please see LSVR charter: *The LSVR protocol is intended as a self-standing routing protocol even if using existing BGP transport mechanisms and encodings, or if sharing the same transport session with other existing BGP address families. * Here we are proposing even tighter dependency ... information in BGP Hellos to be critical element of LSVR operation. Today someone can very easily move LSVR transport to say TI-BGP proposed separated at the port level sessions. But if you add even single hard attachment to BGP for LSVR like proposed TLVs it will become a hard anchor. > By the way, have you heard any interest on this mechanism from users of > the L2/L3VPN?:) > You missed it ... it was not about their interest in LSVR or BGP Hellos ... it was about their fear that something they do not need will impact them due to bugs. Cheers R. > > Xiaohu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > From:Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > Send Time:2018年7月12日(星期四) 17:13 > To:徐小虎(义先) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> > Cc:Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>; Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>; idr > wg <idr@ietf.org>; lsvr-chairs <lsvr-chairs@ietf.org>; > draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery <draft-xu-idr-neighbor- > autodiscovery@ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > Subject:Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery > > > BGP code is a BGP code and regardless if this is running on a router in > the Internet or in the MSDC , regardless if it comes from vendor X, Y or Z > it is the same code base. > > It is *BAD* idea to now glue BGP code base with LSVR. And this is first > draft which attempts do so in a very subtle manner by proposing two TLVs. > > If we allow this to go through (because of sympathy to "reuse existing" > approach) the consequences down the road will be rather ugly for all BGP > based worlds (Internet, MSDC, but also enterprises with internal routing, > users of L2 and L3VPN etc ...). > > Thx, > R. > > > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:06 AM, 徐小虎(义先) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> > wrote: > Robert, > > The mechanism as described in this draft is only targeted for the > MSDC where RFC7938 has been enabled. It's absolutely not targeted for the > global routing system:) > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > From:Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > Send Time:2018年7月12日(星期四) 17:00 > To:徐小虎(义先) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> > Cc:Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>; Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>; idr > wg <idr@ietf.org>; lsvr-chairs <lsvr-chairs@ietf.org>; > draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery <draft-xu-idr-neighbor- > autodiscovery@ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > Subject:Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery > > > And that is precisely what IMHO we should avoid. > > Clear separation from BGP global routing and BGP as IGP including LSVR is: > > - extremely important for stability of the former > - very need for innovation and new features velocity of the latter > > Thx, > R. > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 10:54 AM, 徐小虎(义先) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> > wrote: > Hi Gunter, > > Thanks for your email and suggestion. I believe the BGP peer discovery > mechanism as described in this draft is applicable to the use of BGP as IGP > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7938) and LSVR as well. > > Ketan, one co-auhtor of this draft would present this draft on the LSVR > session. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > From:Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc=40icloud.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > Send Time:2018年7月12日(星期四) 15:24 > To:Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com> > Cc:idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; lsvr-chairs <lsvr-chairs@ietf.org>; > draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery <draft-xu-idr-neighbor- > autodiscovery@ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > Subject:Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery > > LSVR realises that there is need for a neighbour and liveliness detection > mechanism, and is making effort to understand the particular LSVR > requirements for a solution. > > From a very high level perspective, there are few ways to address the > aspect of LSVR peer discovery and liveliness detection: > 1) Create something new > 2) Extend something existing > 3) Re-use something existing > > LSVR has no technology religion about any of these, and would like to > progress with a solution space that most > optimal answers the particular LSVR requirements. > > Within LSVR WG meeting at IETF102, there is time reserved to discuss about > these matters, and if you feel interested, we could add this draft into the > agenda? > > Brgds, > G/ > > > > > > On 11 Jul 2018, at 19:39, Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Sue, > > Support. > > 1) Yes > 2) Yes, BGP is most commonly used in most DCs. However, it may have > applications beyond that. > 3) yes, in order to simplify operations for DCs. Single CP is needed. > 4) it should be reviewed by LSVR WG. > > Gaurav > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote: > > Greetings: > > > > This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery > (July 2 – July 16). > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery/ > > > > The authors of this draft should send their IPR statements in response to > this email. I hope the authors will ihelp their vacationing co-authors to > respond by July 7th. > > > > The WG should consider the following: > > 1) Does BGP need to have an autodiscovery mechanism for peers within > Data Centers? > > 2) Does this mechanism work for other deployments? > > > > 3) If so, should be passed in BGP Hello message? > > Or should it be a part of another protocol (e.g. LLDP, BFD, etc). > > > > 4) Does this interact with any of the LSVR work? > > > > I want to thank the authors for their patience while we sorted through > some of the WG LC for other drafts. We decided to wait until some of those > discussion were cleared up prior to starting a new WG Adoption call. > > > > > > Susan Hares > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > >
- Re: [Idr] Fw: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… UTTARO, JAMES
- [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neighbor-… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Nikos Triantafillis
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Zhuangshunwan
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Nikos Triantafillis
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Satya Mohanty (satyamoh)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… ShaoWen Ma
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gunter Van De Velde
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Eric C Rosen
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Krishna Muddenahally Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Mach Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Keyur Patel
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Keyur Patel
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… John E Drake
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gunter Van De Velde
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Nikos Triantafillis
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Nikos Triantafillis
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Abhay Roy
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ahmed Bashandy
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Neeraj Malhotra
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Nikos Triantafillis
- [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Eric C Rosen
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Satya Mohanty (satyamoh)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Derek Yeung
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- [Idr] 回复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- [Idr] 回复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… 徐小虎(义先)
- [Idr] 回复: 回复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] 回复: 回复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-i… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] 回复: 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] 回复: 答复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… 徐小虎(义先)
- [Idr] 回复: 回复: 回复: WG adoption call for draft-xu-i… 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… =?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?=
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… =?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?=
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… guntervandeveldecc
- Re: [Idr] [Lsvr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-id… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-neigh… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [Idr] Fw: WG adoption call for draft-xu-idr-n… zcjiang (蒋治春)