Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Fri, 28 February 2020 02:16 UTC

Subject: Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)
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From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <f76c8440-cc97-1454-ff9d-0d522c95c869@network-heretics.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 21:16:44 -0500
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On 2/27/20 8:46 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

> You have been on this jihad against NAT for decades. In the real 
> world, application designers have to accept NAT is simply a fact of 
> life or their stuff doesn't work.

I'm not going to argue with you about NAT especially since we probably 
significantly agree about its immediate practical effects.   Where we 
differ is in our visions of what makes for a well-functioning Internet 
in the long term.   And I'm not going to argue with you about that 
either, at least not here.

> That IPSEC is a failure as a VPN standard is not an opinion, it is a 
> fact. Every VPN vendor developed their own work-around for the AH 
> debacle and as a result, the built in clients in Windows and Mac are 
> rarely able to connect to an IPSEC VPN. Meanwhile, SSH just works.

The greater failure of IPSEC, IMO, is that it assumes that a host makes 
sense as an authentication principal.    But that's water that has long 
since passed under the bridge.

Keith

Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Er… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Tom Herbert
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Keith Moore
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Keith Moore
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joe Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Keith Moore
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Mark Andrews
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… S Moonesamy
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Tom Herbert
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Christian Huitema
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… S Moonesamy
RE: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… Larry Masinter
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Dino Farinacci
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joseph Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd… S Moonesamy
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Keith Moore
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… John C Klensin
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Keith Moore
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Andrew Alston
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Joseph Touch
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Andrew Alston
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
Re: [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Archite… Fernando Gont
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra