Re: The Next Generation

[John C Klensin <[e-mail]>]

--On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:49 -0400 Keith Moore
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Kathleen, thanks for your comments and especially your efforts
> to identify specific problem areas.  I find those much more
> constructive than attacks on "tone" or participants'
> ages.
> 
>> Perhaps others could make a point of forming relationships
>> with newer participants as a way to help with this behavior
>> to try to retain the good talent.
> 
> I find myself wondering if the organization could do more to
> foster such relationships and establish mentorships - though I
> fear that the same kinds of prejudices we're seeing from
> some leaders would affect those too.   

Keith,

Part of the conclusions and actions that led to my note about my
own behavior ended up with me in a place very similar to the one
Kathleen described for herself.  The solution to many of these
problems involves individuals picking out relative-newcomer
individuals who show promise, seem exceptionally confused but
sincere, or both and stepping in and helping them.  That can be
done individually, without any additional organizational
structure or plans to "foster relationships", and perhaps even
instead of spending large amounts of time on the IETF list
bemoaning our lot or trying to make plans.  

I don't have data, but my completely anecdotal observations,
including some answers to questions I've asked people I've
stepped in to help, is that our various formal efforts to
educate and integrate newcomers (including newcomers tutorials,
quick connections sessions, the meet and greet, etc.) are not
particularly successful.  I'm not suggesting they are not useful
or should be discontinued, but several of the people I've worked
with have been down that path and still need help with things
that path should, IMO, have covered and helped with.

So, concern about prejudices aside and the possibility of
putting more structure around (or "fostering") these efforts
notwithstanding, I suggest that the thing we know has been
successful (I can remember when you arrived in the IETF as a
newcomer) is those one-on-one efforts.  So let me suggest that,
rather than keeping this long thread going, each of us who is
genuinely concerned about newcomers and younger participants
watch whatever list we normally watch, try to detect people who
are new, confused, and/or need help, and reach out to them in
private email and offer to help.   Sometimes that help will be
about navigating procedures, sometimes offering advice about how
the IETF works, sometimes it will be about pointing them to the
right people or WGs and performing virtual introductions,
sometimes it may even involve helping them turn preliminary
thoughts into a -00 I-D and walking them through the posting
process.   

I've done all of those things.  I assume Kathleen and others
have too.  But the key solution appears to be more of us, not
putting the same energy into complaining or wishing that someone
else would behave differently.  The latter two may be worthwhile
too, but it gets old quickly (at least in the sense that those
who most need to listen tune out instead) and, unlike the
one-on-one helping approach, there is little evidence of its
producing useful results.

best,
   john